[David_Tepper]

There have been multiple posts here on the golf boom in Nebraska. Here is more fuel for the fire:

www.golfweek.com/destinations/resort_report/283913647429808.php

[RJ_Daley]

Same article, but nice photo of the Doc.

http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2005/08/07/sports/doc42f4f104cd1fb121974167.txt

[cary lichtenstein]

It would be nice if someone took the Kohler or Bandon approach and built some resort courses so there would be availability to play courses in this area.

[Mike_Sweeney]

It would be nice if someone took the Kohler or Bandon approach and built some resort courses so there would be availability to play courses in this area.

Why can't we leave Nebraska alone? Shivas wants a US Open. Cary wants more resorts. Then what do we have? Can anyone dig up the "I hate golfers" thread with 5 hour rounds and ball marks in the greens. Pinehurst in Nebraska, no thanks.

I played with a buddy of mine this weekend that went on my first Nebraska trip and he asked me, "Has anything changed out at Sand Hills?"

My reply, "Not a thing!"

It is a special place because you can play 2 of my absolute favorite courses within 2 hours of each other. Not one of us expressed any need to go see or play another course. Wild Horse can be joined as a full member for $450 per year and Sand Hills may never have an opening if the memberships pass through generations.

My only regret of the last trip is that I did not arrive earlier to play Wild Horse 2 days, it is really that good.

[Mike Hendren]

Boxter,

The governor's battling to cut 300,000 from state healthcare rolls while the Bear Trace is a financial flop.  I wouldn't wish that on the citizenry of any state.  

Mike

[Mike_Sweeney]

Mike,

The sad thing about all this Nebraska talk is that it's primarily centered around adding additional private or resort-type courses....two things that really don't jive with the general population of Nebraska.  

How many more cities along I-80 (or within 30-45 mins) could replicate the Wild Horse model?  

Now, if the State of Nebraska got involved in the process, and created a partnership between the golf courses, airports and housing, then I could see when a model could be created when an additional 5-10 courses could be created and remain viable.  

btw - every state should be so blessed to have a Pinehurst...

Brian.

If every state has a Pinehurst, then Pinehurst also loses its uniqueness.  

Should the State of Nebraska focus in on the things that make money for Nebraskans? Golf, IMHO, should not be on the State of Nebraska's priority list. Did Oregon help out Keiser?

Edit - See Bogey's post on Bear Trace.

[cary lichtenstein]

How's this for an idea for Nebraska:

A Golf Architects Trail:

The land cost is next to nothing, and since the ground is all sand, construction costs are relatively cheap except for irrigation.

How about public/resort trail with all the fine architects throwing in their best efforts pro bono, etc...

[Mike_Sweeney]

How's this for an idea for Nebraska:

A Golf Architects Trail:

The land cost is next to nothing, and since the ground is all sand, construction costs are relatively cheap except for irrigation.

How about public/resort trail with all the fine architects throwing in their best efforts pro bono, etc...

Cary,

I think that is a wonderful idea. Would you mind sending the first $1.0 million to Shivas' escrow account to get us started on the due diligence.

Thanks

[cary lichtenstein]

Mike:

The first $1 is on its way to Shivas...

[Mike_Sweeney]

Mike:

The first $1 is on its way to Shivas...

Now we're rollin.

Brian,

How much are you in for?

[ChipRoyce]

Please, please, please include me on any future discussions on this! I don't have a large sum of money to invest but sounds so neat would love to learn more and consider future involvement.
Thanks!
Chip

[Rick Shefchik]

Unless I'm missing something, Cary's desire for a resort in the Sand Hills is all about access. There will eventually be three private clubs in the Mullen area that most of us will be unable to play without begging, pleading, cajoling, etc. That's not my preferred way of playing an outstanding golf course.

For those of you who merely need to pick up the phone to play Sandhills, congratulations. For 99 percent of the golfing public, the three private courses near Mullen might as well be on the moon.

Yeah, yeah, I know -- Wild Horse is great, too, and anyone can play it. But it isn't Sand Hills.

[Mike Hendren]

I'm not so sure it's about access.  Business travel aside, I'm guessing that a surprisingly small percentage of golfers would travel to play Sand Hills if it was public tomorrow.  

Most folks I know have precious little time and money for such forays unlike, apparently, everybody in the treehouse.

Mike

[Mike_Sweeney]

There will eventually be three private clubs in the Mullen area that most of us will be unable to play without begging, pleading, cajoling, etc. That's not my preferred way of playing an outstanding golf course.

Rick,

My guess is that the investors in these clubs would do whatever works. They sound from afar like good guys doing it more for love of golf than money. However don't investors have a right to get a return on their money or at least to break even? Developers are pretty smart, and it is pretty clear that Private Retreats have a better chance than a Public Resort in Nebraska.

[Rick Shefchik]

Rick,

...don't investors have a right to get a return on their money or at least to break even? Developers are pretty smart, and it is pretty clear that Private Retreats have a better chance than a Public Resort in Nebraska.

Mike -- Absolutely. I begrudge no one a return on their investment. I was just reacting to what I suspected to be the sentiment of "don't junk up the Sand Hills with resorts the way other areas have been junked up."

It was inevitable that Sand Hills would inspire similar private clubs. But If someone is willing to take the financial leap and open a resort near Mullen that allows the non-connected to play there too, I'm all for it.

[RJ_Daley]

But If someone is willing to take the financial leap and open a resort near Mullen that allows the non-connected to play there too, I'm all for it.

Gentlemen, the aspect of these many threads we have about the mystique of Nebraska seems to always center around Mullen.  But, there are 100s of 1000s of acres of great golf ground nearer population centers.  Actually Dr. Trimble's land is nearer a population center than Mullen.  North Platte, Kearney, Grand Island all have excellent sand hills land within minutes of their city centers, motel-restaurant facilities, and airports.  

Be practical guys.  You need people to work at a resort or golf CCFAD.  You need WATER!!!  The aquafer is in trouble and being restricted in several counties out there.  You need a stable superintendent.  There is more to it than romanticising about a public access course somewhere near Mullen.  If a public access course of high sand hill quality springs up, it will take a developer who can answer the resources and population center-local culture questions with a sound plan.  And, you would be shooting yourself in the foot if you didn't plan to cater equally to the local or regional Husker citizen.  You have to go along and get along with the culture out there because, 'if you build it, some will come'-not all.  Wild Horse would not survive without the community coming first.

[Rick Shefchik]

Dick -- Good points. Let me ammend my desire to see a resort/public access course somewhere in the Nebraska sandhills, but not necessarily near Mullen. As long as it plays similarly to Sand Hills, I don't care where it is.

[Jason McNamara]

Same article, but nice photo of the Doc.

http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2005/08/07/sports/doc42f4f104cd1fb121974167.txt

That link didn't work for me, but I found the article here in the Journal-Star archives:   http://tinyurl.com/cnuf2

Jason

[Jim Nugent]

So how many of you would be ready to make the same leap of faith as the original Sand Hills owners and members?  I'm talking about a club that is very remote and an architect(s) that are relatively unknown in the industry, but definitely have the credentials to create something great?  

I know of a piece of land (450 acres) in the Sandhills that is the same distance from Denver and Omaha as Mullen.  The cost of the land would be $0, and the architectural fee is $1.  It's a very good piece of land (see below) and the architect has done recognized work in his own name and as an associate of a much larger name.

So, would you be willing to make the leap of faith on similar type of financials as Sand Hills?

Sandbox, a few questions.  What access is there to the site?  What are the numbers, to take it from its current state to finished golf course?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Cary, et. al.,

What would a resort in the Sand Hills have to offer ?

With a golf season limited to May through September, what would the resort offer from October through April ?

If you put 4 Sand Hills type golf courses in one location what would be their distinguishing features that would make playing them on a repetitive basis attractive ?

I'd like to go back to Bandon Dunes, but, I'm not sure, if there were 3 other courses next to Sand Hills, that there's enough diversification in the products to make me want to return.

As beautiful as the land is, there is a monotony, a repetive feel regarding the surroundings no matter which direction you look.

Weather, access and utilization make the proposition difficult, if not impossible.

[cary lichtenstein]

Pat:

You could say the same thing about the land the occupies Shinnecock, National and Sebonack as they actually all touch each other.

I think the architects are bright enough to differentiate.

The season is probably longer than Kohler

The water problem sounds major however

Cary

[RJ_Daley]

One thing about those long views across the sand hills is the unfettered landscape - no powerline poles.  How much power, and how far would you like to bring the lines? They do have propane gas turbines for irrigation pivots, but... Club house, maintenance facility, etc?  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat:

You could say the same thing about the land the occupies Shinnecock, National and Sebonack as they actually all touch each other.

I wouldn't agree that the land at NGLA and the land at Shinnecock are the same, despite their contiguous nature.[/color]

I think the architects are bright enough to differentiate.
I don't know if that's possible without moving a lot of dirt, and moving a lot of dirt equals money.

Have you ever played Sand Hills ?[/color]

The season is probably longer than Kohler

Could be, but, we're talking about Nebraska, the remote nature of the site and the very limited season and the feasability of creating a resort with golf that will attract visitors from near and far, repetitively, and .... be cost efficient.

I don't see how you could recoup your capital and operating expenses with such a limited season and such a limited product.[/color]

The water problem sounds major however

I suspect that the water rights are attainable.[/color]

P.S.   Do golfers travel to Scotland to play one resort course ?

[Tony_Chapman]

Patrick - Would this be something that people would come to (with the addition of a golf course) and some great hunting in the fall? It appears that is what is already happening.

http://www.sandhilldoublerranch.com/

http://www.1plus1ranch.com/

http://www.unclebuckslodge.com/

I could go on and on and on. This stuff is already happening in the Sand Hills. People come from all over, just to visit the land and see the stuff for a few days. Imagine if you added a golf course.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tony Chapman,

Creating the facilities for a complex that would be all things to all people is expensive, and risky.

I don't know that a golf course with a limited season is a strong enough draw, and, I don't think that most people want to travel all day, and then make daily trips to nearby golf courses.

I love Wild Horse, but, even with a hotel/resort, I doubt that I would return anytime soon just to play that one golf course.

I doubt that 4 public golf courses could sustain themselves, and, if the clubs were private, would they permit outside play when they have a limited season for their membership ?

The addition of a casino might help, but would the legislature approve such a facility.

On the surface it seems like a natural, but, when you do the math, it seems risky at best.

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