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Matt_Ward

2002's Greatest Impact Course(s)
« on: December 26, 2002, 06:38:55 PM »
As we near the end of the year I have to ask the group what course(s) had the greatest impact upon you in 2002? The key being courses that you ACTUALLY played and not just observed from TV or second hand accounts.

For me it comes down to two -- Wild Horse in Gothenburg, Nebraska and Rustic Canyon in Moorpark, California. Both courses are public, utterly affordable in this age of inane triple digit green fees, and possess sophisticated designs that always keep your interest.

As a dedicated publinxer I had begun to wonder whether quality public design can be done that doesn't force you to take out a second mortgage to play. Wild Horse and Rustic Canyon are two superb examples of what other jurisdictions / locales throughout the USA can do.

Among the GCA crowd what courses had the greatest impact and why?



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2002's Greatest Impact Course(s)
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2002, 06:56:14 PM »
Matt:

While it is a private course for me it was Rolling Green outside of Phila.

Prior to this summer I had not played the course since 1979 and had forgotten how terrific it truly is.  

While this course may not get a lot of notoriety outside the Philly area the routing, the challenge, the layout and the pure fun and joy in playing this outstanding Flynn gem had the greatest impact on me in 2002.

Keep up the good work Rolling Green.

Fairways and Greens,

Dave
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Craig_Rokke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2002's Greatest Impact Course(s)
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2002, 07:07:59 PM »
Rustic Canyon and its sophisticated simplicity definitely
impacted me. I applaud its affordability in the midst of the
expensive SoCal golf scene. To me, this intimate course was breath of fresh air that I have not seen in public golf. I loved
its uniqueness--the undefined areas, the expanded "putting
areas", and it's superb use of natural features. Probably
the most seamless integration of a course and its surroundings I've seen in a while.

Flynn's Huntingdon Valley was also a real treat, and another example of the high calibre of his coursework. Marvelous use
of the terrain, interesting greens, and the stern test it presents made this course one of my favorites. I'm looking forward to the book on Flynn.

Finally, seeing Pine Valley at the Phila Open was something I
won't soon forget.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:12 PM by -1 »

GeoffreyChilds

Re: 2002's Greatest Impact Course(s)
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2002, 08:24:19 PM »
Matt

I was truly blessed this year to have the opportunity to play so many memorable golf courses including Rustic Canyon and Wild Horse and being from the publinx ranks myself I agree with you completely about those gems.  I had the opportunity to play Riivera and LA North as well as Maidstone and other well known courses for the first time as well, however, there can be no more lasting impression then my time with good friends at Sand Hills.  I believe that anyone seeing that unique place for the first time can not help but see a PERFECT example of minimalism in golf architecture at its absolute best and in a setting that one can only pray that heaven mimicks. That is a place that I can't wait to be invited back to experience and play golf at its best.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: 2002's Greatest Impact Course(s)
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2002, 08:29:07 PM »
Interesting what Geoffrey said and I concur with all of it.

Funny thing is that I was going to write that there is no need for a golf course in Heaven.  God can just send the fortunates back down to Sand Hills for eternity, because that course clearly is not of this earth.  

If that sounds like hyperbole, it's not.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:12 PM by -1 »

ed getka

Re: 2002's Greatest Impact Course(s)
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2002, 08:11:29 AM »
The newer courses I saw this year that I really was amazed by include The Kingsley Club, Barona Creek, and Rustic Canyon.

I would like to express my appreciation to those who made this my most memorable year golfing by inviting me to see some great examples of golf architecture.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: 2002's Greatest Impact Course(s)
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2002, 08:17:57 AM »
I know I learn more from non-success than from it. So my impact course would be Shadow Creek, because while all the elements of construction were perfect and variety filled. It was some intangeable that was missing from the design that made the course good but hardly great. In other words, the feelings I had post round at Wild Horse and Sand hills was completely different than Shadow.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: 2002's Greatest Impact Course(s)
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2002, 08:42:34 AM »
Interesting... I was going to stay out of this thread, because all I would be doing was agreeing once again - each of Rustic Canyon, Barona Creek, Wild Horse and particularly the greatest course in all the word, Sand Hills, sure had an impact on me - but then I read Adam's words re Shadow Creek.

I too had the great fortune to enter that Fort Knox of golf clubs this year....

And I came away impressed as all hell.  I've discussed this with several people now and what got me about Shadow was what they accomplished... what man can do when he has unlimited funds, imagination, and time... Messrs. Wynn and Fazio took barren scrub featureless desert and created North Carolina.  Hey, that's the Vegas way - didn't people also recreate New York, Paris, Morocco, Venice, etc. a few miles away?  So why shouldn't they make a completely manufactured oasis of golf?  Well, an oasis is what it is, that's for sure.  It impressed the hell out of me for just this reason.  So while I'm not going to say Shadow Creek, belongs with Sand Hills, Cypress Point and NGLA at the very top of the golf course pantheon as I see such, it does belong in the conversation... To me it is just an amazing achievement.  That impacted me more than anything else I saw this year, really... And I've said it before in here, but seeing Shadow Creek and Rustic Canyon a few weeks apart as I did also made a REAL impact - talk about polar opposites of intent, purpose, clientele... with each turning out "great" in its own way... that was eye-opening.

Regarding Shadow Creek as a golf course, I guess it just comes down to what one values.  If minimalism is your thing, than obviously Shadow is going to be soul-less and turn you off, as it seems to have done for Adam.  That's cool, to each his own.  For me, yes, I too didn't have the same "feeling" leaving Wild Horse, Rustic or particularly Sand Hills that I did leaving Shadow... At WH and RC, I was exhilirated and thrilled and really felt warm good feelings from the proprietors... I felt at home... At Sand Hills I felt all that to an even greater degree, and added a strong feeling of "awe"... At Shadow, I left feeling I had seen the other side for a brief instant - it surely wasn't mine, and though they were quite nice to me I never felt like anything but a brief visitor - but the greatest impression was incredulity and amazement - that is, how they hell does one carve valleys and rock walls into featureless desert??

I'm guessing Adam and I aren't all that far off on our feelings about Shadow, though at first glance it seems like it... Our only disagreement, I'd say, is that I just can't call Shadow anything but a success.  Mr. Wynn surely got what he wanted there, and what's there is one hell of an achievement.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2002's Greatest Impact Course(s)
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2002, 10:05:53 AM »
    This thread is especially important to me this year but for a different reason than most as I have recently been informed that my home course has been sold to developers.  I play at Indian Spring in Silver Spring, Maryland which has 36 holes plus the usual country club amenities.  A good part of one of the courses is flood plain and cannot be developed yet the property was sold for $300 million.  The club was originally a built by a very wealthy individual who felt that it would be good to build a course which could be affordable to most and open to all.  The membership was made up of Jews, blacks and other minorities who could not join some of the prominent clubs in the Washington, DC area.  The original course was designed by Donald Ross but was taken when the beltway was built but they bought a new piece of property and built 36 holes,etc.  We were always assured that we would have a place to play but the founder died a long time ago and his son recently died at age 85.  The members do not know what is going to happen in the future and what is planned for us but few are optimistic. So you might say that the sale and probable closing of my home course has the greatest impact on me.

     On the other hand there has been a great deal of new course construction in the Washington area and I have enjoyed Joe Lee's, Musket Ridge in Maryland, and Tom Jackson's, Stonewall which is next to Robert Trent Jones in Gainesville, Virginia, but it is still not the same.  Indian Spring allowed me to grab my bag and go out for an afternoon walk with my son but that is not permitted at most courses.  Private clubs in the area are $50,000 to $85,000 to join, or I could go back to Avenel where you pay $5,000 per year to be treated like dirt.  Hopefully the owners of Indian Spring will come up with some solution but if they don't it looks like a second mortgage and an understanding wife will be the only solution to my problem.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Ward

Re: 2002's Greatest Impact Course(s)
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2002, 10:06:19 AM »
I have to mention a few other courses from 2002 that still linger on my mind.

Clearly, one of the finest holdovers from my 2001 list would have to be Wolf Creek at Paradise Canyon in Mesquite, Nevada. I've played the course several times and my last visit came at the end of May.

It's been mentioned by a few on GCA, most recently by George Pazin, that canyon style golf certainly takes a good bit of adjustment. When Tom and Adam mention the qualities of Shadow Creek I completely agree because when I played Shadow Creek for the first time a few years back with Kenny Wynn, Steve's younger brother, I was just mesmermized on how such a course could be created on such a harsh landscape.

Wolf Creek follows that pattern and goes one step further. The layout fits naturally in the pre-existing canyons that have been present for sooooo long. Yes, there have been some conditioning issues (some of the back tees need to be improved for overall turf quality), but the mental imagery that Wolf Creek provides is etched so vividly for me even as I write this in Clifton, NJ. You close your eyes and easily visulaize the stark desert / canyon setting in combination with a wide variety of holes that have been created. When you stand on the back tee at #2 and look upon the property you feel like Dante standing above the abyss. Holes such as #8, #14 and #17 also take the golfer above and beyond and demand your utmost in skill and creativity. Wolf Creek is not minimalism for sure, but it gives the player plenty to think about loooooooong after the round is finished.

In a lesser "supporting role" for layouts with greatest impact I also have to mention the qualities of Twisted Dune near Atlantic City. Twisted Dune is clearly the work of man's hands but it gives a different perspective on what golf can be. The qualities of many of the holes raise your spirit as you constantly seek to get to your ball to play the next shot. Twisted has much to offer and I'll be most curious to see how they progress into '03 given their success thus far.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2002's Greatest Impact Course(s)
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 02:58:38 PM »
Did they miss any?