[Steve_ Shaffer]

During my recent trip to Colorado, I played 2 Jim Engh courses- the private Pradera in Parker and the public Lakota Canyon in New Castle. I was favorably impressed. Details to follow. Blackstone is Engh's first venture in Arizona.This is NOT a mountain course. It is in the west valley of Phoenix not too far from Quintero. This is a private club and the website has some pictures and descriptions of some holes. Take a look:

www.blackstonecountryclub.com

[Forrest Richardson]

I have seen Jim's work from a distance. Am looking forward to visiting when it opens to the public.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Forrest

The course may be open now. It's private and they're selling memberships. The website is correct. It's new and probably up and down a lot.

Steve

[Forrest Richardson]

Up and down is good in golf.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The website is up again with 3 pictures/descriptions of holes. The first hole has a 70y wide fairway!

[Andy Troeger]

I'm going to have the opportunity to play Blackstone in a couple weeks. Anyone been there since this thread originated?

[Jerry Kluger]

Andy: I'm a big fan of Blackstone although there are some who dislike the containment mounding.  Great clubhouse and the course has always been in fantastic condition.  5 par 3s and they are all different and interesting.  Driveable par 4 and some risk/reward par 5s.  Check out the centerline bunkering including pot bunkers as well as some long bunkers down the center running parallel with the fairway.  There's a par 4 on the front which is a cape hole which is unusual in Arizona and some might say is out of place, but it has a green sort of floating out in the water and it has two sections, one of which is a punchbowl.  Hopefully, they've finished the roads and it is easier to get to from the freeway.  It really is nothing like Quintero which is up in the mountains and more like Pradera or Lakota, while Blackstone is down in the desert.  

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

Blackstone is done well -- although I do concur with the overuse of mounding -- sometimes Jim Engh does get a bit carried away in spots.

You'll need to really check out the last couple of holes of the front side. The par-5 9th is really a treat -- plenty of risk and reward for those who dare. The long par-4 8th, if memory serves, features a very demanding drive zone.

The really big disappointment for me was the vanilla closer. It's a par-5 but when held against the likes of other similar closers at Pradera and Lakota Canyon Ranch it's fails to excite as those two other examples.

Nonetheless, Blackstone has more than enough holes to keep one's interest and I'd be curious to hear your comments.

[Andy Troeger]

Jerry and Matt,

Thanks for the comments. I've played both Lakota Canyon and Pradera and liked both and look forward to seeing Blackstone. I am playing Quintero as well (a few weeks after Blackstone) and will be interested to see the differences in terrain and design. It will be my first Rees Jones course so will be a new experience for me  

[Dave Givnish]

I agree on the mounding - there are a few of the greens where you have a better shot getting close to the pin if you bounce it down offthe hill surrounding the green.  They could make the course nearly unplayable for tournaments by letting the grass grow around the greens.

They've done a great job with the facility but don't seem to have a lot of success getting members so far.

[Sean Leary]

I agree on the mounding - there are a few of the greens where you have a better shot getting close to the pin if you bounce it down offthe hill surrounding the green.  

At Chambers Bay, for GCAers those are called strategic options ...

[Matt_Ward]

Dave:

You raise a good point -- the membership issue may be tagged to the fact that the area Blackstone is in is quite far from the main golfing areas of the Valley.

Nonetheless, I like what it provides because you are not so cramped with all the other clutter generally found in the other locations.

Andy:

Make note -- you will see some replica items from Engh. The par-3 17th at Lakota Canyon Ranch is copied at Blackstone -- not from the sense of an elevated tee shot but from the way the green is shaped.

One other point -- it would be interesting if Blackstone could flip the nines because #9 is a good bit better than the existing closer.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt,

The current 9 was the original 18 and would have made a great finishing hole but the club decided to flip the nines as the current 18 is closer to the clubhouse.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Yes, thanks for the answer. Ditto to others who updated me offline.

I like Blackstone because it demonstrates Engh's ability to create holes on a much more stark canvass within the desert environment. There are replica features at Blackstone I've encountered at other layouts of his I have played but it would certainly be on my short list of courses people should play when visiting the greater Valley area of Phoenix.

p.s. The approach to #9 is one of Engh's best. It's especially terrifying for those desiring to go at the green in two blows.

[Jerry Kluger]

Matt: To reach #9 - which I understand is now #18, would be truly a spectacular feat. The risk is very high and could mean a very tough recovery shot if you miss the green and are not in the hazard.  I have found that the shot into the green from the layup position is still challenging.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I visited Blackstone yesterday but did not play. The real estate development is in serious trouble in my opinion. Not many homes have been built or are under construction and builders are offering incentives for spec houses previously built. The development looks almost like a ghost town.Memberships must be less than 100. I think the developer overestimated the demand for a high end club(75K) in the West Valley.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

I've heard a few things from people I know who live closer to Buckeye and the comments are rather similar.

Frankly, the really deep pocket clubs are the ones in Scottsdale / North Scottsdale. I don't doubt the downturn is hurting but there comes a limit on just how far outside the main city area people will trek to and from. Riding the 11o or I-10 is not an easy proposition given the surge of people now living in the greater Valley of the Sun.

[Andy Troeger]

Played Blackstone today and will offer more comments once I get back to Albuquerque. Few quick comments:

No one in their right mind would go for #9 in two shots, but I did think the green site was pretty cool. In fact, the golf course was pretty impressive as a whole, but remember that I tend to like Jim Engh's courses and philosophies on design so no shocker that I liked this one too. The variety of holes within the course is very strong, there are some repetitions with his other courses. Certainly worth playing.

They are searching for members!

[Andy Troeger]

Andy: I'm a big fan of Blackstone although there are some who dislike the containment mounding.  Great clubhouse and the course has always been in fantastic condition.  5 par 3s and they are all different and interesting.  Driveable par 4 and some risk/reward par 5s.  Check out the centerline bunkering including pot bunkers as well as some long bunkers down the center running parallel with the fairway.  There's a par 4 on the front which is a cape hole which is unusual in Arizona and some might say is out of place, but it has a green sort of floating out in the water and it has two sections, one of which is a punchbowl.  Hopefully, they've finished the roads and it is easier to get to from the freeway.  It really is nothing like Quintero which is up in the mountains and more like Pradera or Lakota, while Blackstone is down in the desert.  

The 4th hole which is the cape hole Jerry mentioned above is truly interesting and pretty unique for Arizona from what I've seen. With water running down the right side and the fairway sloping slightly that way its a tough tee shot, but there's plenty of room out left. The tough bit is that the farther left you play to most pins the tougher the approach to a green that does seem to hang out over the end of the pond.

I crushed a drive but got too aggressive with the line and it rolled in the water but the drop only left me with 120 yards. The pin was in the bowl on the right side and I used the backstop to end up with a tap-in par. Wouldn't be universally praised on GCA due to the water in the desert setting, but fun hole to play.

Playing Quintero next week so will be interested to see the differences between the two.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()