Courses IŽd love to see host the U.S. Open -- impossible dream?

[Jim Nugent]

A pretty obvious list.  IŽm guessing either their members donŽt want the open...logistics donŽt permit it...or the courses are not suitable for the modern pro game.

Anyway, hereŽs my short list:

*  Pine Valley
*  NGLA (and possibly one of its neighbors)
*  San Francisco Golf Club
*  Los Angeles CC North
*  Seminole

Am I hallucinating, or are any of these possibilities for the future?

[Gib_Papazian]

Hallucinating.

*  Pine Valley - No room for a gallery. Plus, the Tour boys would rip it apart. PV is only fearsome for 18 handicappers.

*  NGLA (and possibly one of its neighbors) - A composite Course with Shinnecock is an idea I have looked at. Impossible given the popularity of Shinnecock just as it is.
 
*  San Francisco Golf Club - Well, they had one at Fresh Meadow, right? However, the membership at SFGC is . . . . . . a trifle insular and absolutely intolerant of any interruption or inconvenience. All they have to do is look across Lake Merced for a cautionary tale of what happens when the circus comes to town and you let them set up their Big Top inside your gates.
     
*  Los Angeles CC North - Every bit as insular as SFGC . . . . this is the only one that has a chance on your list. I do not believe it will get as much support from the LA populace as you might think.

*  Seminole - Florida in June? Not.

As long as we are hallucinating, I vote Bandon Dunes. From the tips with a bit of wind, this baby can test even the big boys. . . . . North Bend/Coos Bay could use a boost to their economy . . . .

Maybe the Plantation on Maui . . . . . Grow the rough, roll the greens . . . . I am visualizing seared ahi on the veranda, a cool beer and a view of Furyk putting our for his 2nd Open Championship.

[John_Conley]

Anyway, even if they were considering Seminole a worthy venue it isn't happening for Gib's reason.  

Steve Elling, golf writer for the Orlando Sentinel, looked into this once.  There are a number of reasons that have been given, but most of them could be discounted.

* No worthy venues - Florida has had as much course building as anywhere.  Certainly some could handle the play, crowd, etc...
* Heat - The Open recently went to Tulsa, case closed.
* etc...

Except for!!

* Weather!! - Florida's average rainfall is very high for June.  Steve's conclusion was that the US Open should be, if all criteria are taken into consideration, in San Diego every year.

Probably not going to be at Seminole any time soon.

[wsmorrison]

Huntingdon Valley Country Club!

I'm sure the pros would complain but the golf experience would be wonderful.  The pros would cite the firm and fast conditions with bounding balls and a mixture of good and bad bounces as unfair.  They'd probably find fault with the uneven lies and double crosses-- fade lies with a required draw and the like.  Who cares, let them complain.  The architecture and maintenance practices would show off an interesting meld that might just take hold as long as the USGA continues to learn their lesson in course set-up.

The B nine is more of a ball striker's nine rather than a bomber's course and that would increase the number of players in the field that had a realistic chance to win.  Yet the C nine does reward accuracy and length.  7046 yards, par 70; 75.7 rating! and 141 slope.  What a great setting for golf!

The club has plenty of room for the tournament.  Played on the B and C nine, the course with the ideal maintenance meld would be everything the pros could want in a tournament to identify the best player that week.  There would have to be some small changes made to the C nine...perhaps cutting down the tops of some of the trees at the corner on the second hole for instance.  I'd like to see a tee further up the hill on C-9 adding about 25 yards to the hole.  That would really make a demanding approach to the elevated green.

This course could hold a major USGA event just about any day of the year.  That is to the credit of the membership and certainly Scott Anderson, the super superintendent. Let's start the petition now.  

[Jim Nugent]

Anyway, even if they were considering Seminole a worthy venue it isn't happening for Gib's reason.  

Steve Elling, golf writer for the Orlando Sentinel, looked into this once.  There are a number of reasons that have been given, but most of them could be discounted.

* No worthy venues - Florida has had as much course building as anywhere.  Certainly some could handle the play, crowd, etc...
* Heat - The Open recently went to Tulsa, case closed.
* etc...

Except for!!

* Weather!! - Florida's average rainfall is very high for June.  Steve's conclusion was that the US Open should be, if all criteria are taken into consideration, in San Diego every year.

Probably not going to be at Seminole any time soon.

The heat never crossed my mind.  Maybe if they move the tournament to October...

[Jonathan Cummingham]

An Open at SanFran would be great.  They wouldn't have to worry about crowds.  Nobody would find the course.  They don't give out maps even if you have a tee time.

[Robert Thompson]

San Francisco is a pipe dream. Without any Jewish members and a membership policy that is restrictive as any, it will never be. Pine Valley for the same reason (men only), though I think Gib is kidding himself about pros tearing it up. It seems to me that pros play particularly well on courses with flat greens, which isn't Pine Valley.
Seminole? Come on. That's laughable. It was hard to fit 18 holes in that piece of property without worrying about where to put 25,000 people.

[Mike_Young]

Jim,
Why would the members of the clubs you mention desire an open?  It is much more "cool" to be a member of a club the USGA wants but doesn't want the USGA. IMO

[Tom_Doak]

If SFGC had any intention of hosting a US Open, they probably would have made the invitation when one of their members (Tatum or Spaeth) was President of the USGA.

They did consider having the US Amateur at NGLA in 1995 for the 100th anniversary of the USGA, in combination with the Open at Shinnecock ... but they didn't do it.  They certainly would not consider NGLA tough enough for the Open.

The only course on your list that's a possibility is LACC.  For years, the USGA was interested in going there and the club wanted none of it.  Now, I understand, it is more the other way around.

To tell the truth, though, I don't think the USGA is actively seeking new Open sites at this time.  It probably won't happen until they have new management with different ideas, at which point, who knows where they might go?

[T_MacWood]

I'm hesitant to condemn a work of great golf architecture to that sentence...chances are it won't be unaltered from the experience. The Golf Club, Prarie Dunes and Chicago come to mind. The Golf Club is probably the only one capable of standing up to modern technology. ANGC would be an interesting venue as well.

[Gib_Papazian]

Robert,

Please expain to me which holes - *exactly* - at PVGC would be a tough test for Tour guys, even from the tips.

#13? Driver, 7-iron. The diagonal bunkers would not even be an issue.

I guess we need to slow down the ball. I have no problem with low scores, but the USGA would never tolerate 15 under par.

Woody Platt was a great amateur . . . . . Tiger or Vijay might shoot 61.    

[Mike_Golden]

San Francisco is a pipe dream. Without any Jewish members and a membership policy that is restrictive as any, it will never be.

Robert, there's actually one Jewish member at SFGC-the manager of the club is a friend of a friend and we had that conversation once

[bodgeblack]

I would love to see the US Open at...St. Andrews!

After the grumbling about the rough at this years Open I would love to see the comments of the players if the USGA got a hold of it.

Oh and make the greens like lightening as well. That way defending champion (Todd Hamilton) could not complain about them being too slow.

...I wonder what the results would be?

cheers
Jamie

[Adam_Messix]

Wayne--

You are so right, Huntingdon Valley C & B.  My only question would be how those guys would play 7C and if they would need a tee further back to keep them from driving it across.

I can tell you from my USGA insider friends that they openly covet having the open at LACC North, and the club has actually considered it, but it won't happen in the forseeable future.  

[wsmorrison]

Adam,

The resurrection of holes 2, 6 and 7 were somewhat compromised by modern permitting and the driving range.

You're right about number 7, the 2 crossing streams create issues for high and low handicap players.  From the back tee with no wind I hit 3-wood  and keep it short of the second creek, especially on the shorter left side.  The pros would have to hit irons leaving them with a medium iron (200 yards) to a severely sloped back to front green.  It is not so bad to take driver out of their hands on this hole.

With the wind, it is more difficult since it it is rough on the far side of the second stream making driver not an option to clear.

Most think 2,6 and 7 are a bit problematic and I agree somewhat.  There are solutions to the quirk of number 2 with the environmental area on the left.  I'm getting together with Jim Sullivan, Jr. and Scott Anderson on Wednesday to further the idea we came up with.  I think the bunkering on 6 should reflect the original Flynn green which is now part of the driving range.  Rather than 2 bunkers on the left, one on each side of the green.  Even if 2 were left as is, it is quirky but it and 7 are really all the quirk, everything else is out in front of you with the challenges evident.

[Mike_Cirba]

Almost certainly the "best" course in the Philly area to handle a US Open type setup (long and straight, long and straight, etc., etc., etc) is Aronimink.  

Plus, I'm sure the USGA could get the 11th green unputtable, so they'd have their requisite "over the top" controversy for the week.

[wsmorrison]

Mike,

I see where you're coming from with your Aronimink suggestion and believe in your jest you are pointing out a sad fact.  

Seriously now, Mike.  What do you think of the B and C nines at Huntingdon Valley as an Open venue?  Wouldn't it open up a larger segment of the field and be a fascinating test of golf under ideal conditions?  This is the type of golf I was hoping to see at my favorite golf course, Shinnecock Hills.  Alas that didn't work out.  I think HVCC would be great.

[Mike_Cirba]

Wayne,

Re: the B&C nines, it's way too good an idea to ever see the light of day.  

Ground game at the US Open, especially on approach shots?   Then what would happen to the fertilizer budget for growing high rough to choke in the approach area?  

By the way, I meant no insult to Aronimink with my comment. I just believe it fits the USGA's "tough but fair" criteria, even if the course is a bit more one-dimensional than some of the "fun" courses in the Philly area.

[wsmorrison]

"By the way, I meant no insult to Aronimink with my comment. I just believe it fits the USGA's "tough but fair" criteria, even if the course is a bit more one-dimensional than some of the "fun" courses in the Philly area."

That's how I took it, Mike.  And I agree.  No slight to the course.  It was meant to be a difficult but fair course and it succeeded.

I'm glad you agree on the merits of a HVCC B and C championship .  Maybe it is too good to happen, but we can dream  

[Kyle Harris]

"By the way, I meant no insult to Aronimink with my comment. I just believe it fits the USGA's "tough but fair" criteria, even if the course is a bit more one-dimensional than some of the "fun" courses in the Philly area."

That's how I took it, Mike.  And I agree.  No slight to the course.  It was meant to be a difficult but fair course and it succeeded.

I'm glad you agree on the merits of a HVCC B and C championship .  Maybe it is too good to happen, but we can dream  

And guess who could put out the holes...  

[Wayne Freeman]

I agree with most of what has been said. I think L.A. North is the logical choice, but from what I've heard there is no chance the membership is going to let the USGA come in there.I think the Bayonet course at Ford Ord is a candidate if another public course was going to get consideration, but with Torrey Pines getting the nod for 2008 (which I think is a poor choice), Bayonet will undoubtedly only remain as a qualifying site. I only played the Duke course once about 10 years ago but I think it had potential and was long and tough enough.  Any comments about it?

[wsmorrison]

"And guess who could put out the holes..."

I think it would be a great tournament despite that
 

[Kyle Harris]

"And guess who could put out the holes..."

I think it would be a great tournament despite that
 

Har har  

[Paul Richards]

LACC

[Kyle Harris]

Wayne,

Which order would you go at HVCC?

B-C or C-B

Tough decision for me, simply because of the B's ninth hole being an absolutely wonderful 18th.