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Andrew Cunningham

  • Karma: +0/-0
New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« on: July 31, 2005, 07:20:45 PM »
What new golf course construction technologies will define and advance the GCA business now and for the next 25 years?  Will advancing hydrid grasses create better playing surfaces with less required maintenance?  Will we reach a point where synthetic playing surfaces replace natural turf?  If so, how far away is this reality?  Lastly, what technology if possible would fundamentally change GCA (for better or worse)?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2005, 02:38:56 PM by Andrew "Sales_Guru" Cunningham »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2005, 08:34:37 PM »
Andrew:  I'm not sure there is any construction technology which is going to improve golf course architecture.

Some of the CAD crowd are breathless about the possibility that someday bulldozers and graders will be programmable, so they can automatically produce EXACTLY what is drawn on the grading plans.  However, I remain skeptical that someone can DRAW a better hole in grading format than the best construction guys can SHAPE in three dimensions.

"Better grasses" are always being developed, however the single biggest advance would be to come up with grasses that require no chemical inputs, so that the "groundwater" environmental opposition to golf course construction would go away.  Unfortunately, no one seems to be trying to achieve this.


Kris Kerr

Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2005, 09:02:38 PM »
There is already technology whereby a GIS system connected to dozers / graders is being used for golf course construction. You can tell from my sketchy explanation that I don't know much about it...
However, I would concur that this can't compete on the same level as a good operator on the ground.

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2005, 09:32:31 PM »
Andrew.... a little more dirt under the nails might be a techno improvement....or maybe a dirt filled dip and peck tray for the CAD folks.

 I think or hope that turfgrass varieties will be developed to have broader strengths than more refined charactoristics.

 Artificial turf would have to pass the 'I can't believe its not real' test to be successful for a golf course....and it will [not in my time though].....[hopefully].
« Last Edit: July 31, 2005, 09:36:52 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2005, 10:53:58 PM »
In 25 years I should think that almost all mowing and much bunker raking (well, in the US at least) will be done by robotic/unmanned equipment using differential GPS and/or buried wires to easily maintain whatever mowing lines the architect originally intended (or greens committees later screwed up as)  Having an army of smaller, battery powered and solar charged equipment patrolling the course when its dark would remove the maintenance cost consideration from wider fairways and larger greens.

Since fully-loaded labor costs continually rise over time faster than inflation making skilled labor a greater percentage component of a given project, anything that can be done in golf course construction and maintenance to reduce the labor input will be desireable and necessary to keep greens fees/dues better in line with inflation than they have been.  Not much that can be done about land costs, but if we ever got those damn flying cars futurists promised us at the 1939 World's Fair we could build houseless courses in the middle of nowhere on cheap land ala Sand Hills.

Some of these might be bad things.  If robot bunker rakers become cheap enough, CCFADs might have one hiding in the trees or rough near every bunker, ready to smooth it to micron precision after anyone visits it.  Greens could be rolled, vericut and double cut every night.  Laser cutters and 25 years of USGA genetic engineering could produce greens with maximum slopes of 1% that stimp at 30. :-[  But man, just imagine how green they'll be! ;D
My hovercraft is full of eels.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2005, 11:08:31 PM »
Not a construction technology, but...

Golfer's glasses, required as mandatory apparel, with a tinting that ensures fairways and greens look green, even if they are not.   ;) This will enable the wonderful meld of firm, fast and (apparently) green to be achieved at low cost, whilst at the same time protecting the golfer's eyes from damaging UV rays.

I think many TV lenses/filters have the 'green colour enhancement' feature today. :D
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2005, 12:35:18 AM »
I disagree with Tom D.

Mathematically, it is much more likely that far better golf courses can be drawn than can be built. For many more ideas can be drawn than can possibly be built. Of course, we will never have the opportunity to find out which of the drawings are worthy as it takes much longer to build a course than to sketch a concept for one. (So, in reality, I do not disagree.)

The convergence of sketching (design) with construction technology is exciting. Does it replace hard work in the dirt? No, of course not. We used GPS links on The Links at las Palomas and it was interesting, frustrating and exciting — all at once. Did it make for a better golf course? Probably not. But one must consider that we did this with a first-generation compurter of sorts — the exciting era is yet to come.

As Saul Bass, a great design professional once pointed out, "The invention of the typewriter did not necessarily make for better poetry."

« Last Edit: August 01, 2005, 12:37:24 AM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Richard Chamberlain

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2005, 02:06:43 AM »
The use of GPS guided construction equipment is an amazing advancement for courses that require a decent amout of dirt moved in the BULK Earthworks phase.
For the next step, call it fine shaping if you like, its useless.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2005, 07:57:22 AM »
Doug, most of what you say about robotic mowers is already in prototype stages.  A Russian group (based in Conneticutt I think) has a prototype robotic greensmower and is test marketing it.

My guess is in the area of construction materials technology using more diverse recycled products.  We see crumb rubber being incorporated into soil ammendments and cart path construction.  I think more crushed and treated things will be used to ammend soil.  Also, I think we might see advancements in the powerplants of construction equipment.  Diesel already has a bio recycled component.  I think other alternative fuels might be discovered that will produce the horsepower needed to run a dozer or backhoe.

I also think they will train chimpanzees to play golf, and that I will be the first to loose to one in match play at a course longer than 6400yards... ::)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2005, 09:10:20 AM »
I tend to think the genetic engineering of grasses will be the big technology affecting golf construction.

RJ,

I was at the turf show when someone demonstrated the robot mower. The salesman was explaining to a few supers that they put a human looking computer on the seat.  One said it had kind of a blank look.  The other said, "Same expression as most of my employees!" ;D
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2005, 10:34:27 AM »
One of the truly interesting "advancements" is GPS/GIS technology is the accurate mapping of golf courses.

On Golf Club Atlas 2080 agruments and "what ifs", "why" and "how much change" about courses from this era will be moot — quite simply there will be accurate mapping down to the centimeter — end of discussion!
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2005, 11:19:26 AM »
I don't think GPS or Lidar will ever be able to discern between the top of low growing vegitation and the earth.
3 feet of elevation error over 70 acres = A LOT!!
How can a computer piloted dozer screen the rocks or manage top soil?
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2005, 11:36:02 AM »
LIDAR already discerns between vegetation and soil/hard surfaces. It depends, of course, on the control effort. If LIDAR is done correctly it can map irrigation valve boxes, heads and other detail 3-4 inches in height. The detail rests with how many passes the aerial unit makes, and what course it follows. New technologies involving infrared and LIDAR will further distinguish between living (vegetation) and hard surfaces.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Neil Regan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2005, 11:36:15 AM »
How about a robot donkey with a drag scraper to shape the greens like they used to do ?

Grass speed  <>  Green Speed

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2005, 11:41:57 AM »
Technically, Jeff Brauer is a robot donkey.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2005, 12:06:29 PM »
Forrest....I disagree with your quote ::).
...it would be very hard to enjoy ee cummings style if it were not for the typewriter...so there, nah nah.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2005, 12:07:34 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2005, 12:38:23 PM »
Jeff is still a donkey robot.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Chris Munoz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2005, 06:20:11 PM »
Working on construction/grow-in's for the past two years, I have seen a lot of new technology.  Some are the new turf stands they are coming out with, round-up ready bentgrass, low mowing height of velvet bentgrass, errosion matting on steep slopes, and new drainage systems  I would have to say that GPS for a D-6 or D-5 Cat will never work because it will never copy really what a architect really wanted on a specific hole.

Muni
Christian C. Munoz
Assistant Superintendent Corales
PUNTACANA Resort & Club
www.puntacana.com

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2005, 08:35:40 PM »
Muni: "I would have to say that GPS for a D-6 or D-5 Cat will never work because it will never copy really what a architect really wanted on a specific hole."

It depends on what you expect. We put a GPS unit on a D6 to very good use...but not to take the place of a shaper's eyes or our field work. We used it to know where we were...and for layout.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Larry_Rodgers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2005, 10:25:38 PM »
 We are seeing better Construction management from Owner's represenatives and this is good for our industry. The use of GPS on a dozer will assist in getting the mass grades close and the Lidar will be great for final determinations of dirt quantities. This will not take away from the competent shapers/artists freedom to create the designers product.

On the water forfront we are seeing technology from other underground construction industries such as vacuum digging around existing utilities and HDPE piping on unstable soils. Real time GPS is slowly working it's way into the radio control systems but there are some software hurdles to get through.

Labor is one of the biggest battles I here about from contractors, which usually happens this time of year when the grassing window is closing and the construction is behind schedule. Any machinery that can replace manual labor and provide the same results is welcome.  

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2005, 10:43:31 PM »
Here is a for-instance: This past week we have begun hauling sand to 89 bunkers at The Wigwam renovation. The machinery is some really neat retro-fitted hauling units with large baloon tires. If — and that's a big if — these machines were GPS controlled it might be possible to fill bunkers over a few weeks by running the units 24-hours per day — even in the dark. Our schedule is verrrrrry tight. I can clearly see the day when many functions on a golf construction project are robotic and ultimately lower costs and increase efficiency.

Creative? Of course not. That takes a human and a mind. But technology is turning a corner. And those who embrace it responsibly will have an edge.

P.S.  —  Those of you NOT on Larry Rogers' funny e-mail list should beg him to sign you up. It is often the highlight of my week.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2005, 10:46:09 PM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

PjW

Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2005, 02:03:46 PM »
Forrest:

"Here is a for-instance: This past week we have begun hauling sand to 89 bunkers at The Wigwam renovation. The machinery is some really neat retro-fitted hauling units with large baloon tires. If — and that's a big if — these machines were GPS controlled it might be possible to fill bunkers over a few weeks by running the units 24-hours per day — even in the dark. Our schedule is verrrrrry tight."

I assume you are getting a variance from the City/County to allow you to operate after dark in this scenerio?  

I agree with Larry that labor will always be the big issue.  

We are setting up a wi-fi system at the project I am on now so we can take our lap tops into the field.  Will we use it lieu of paper documents (plans and specifications)?   That remains to be seen.  It may be more of a tool for infrastructure work (major drainage, sewer) than for golf shaping changes.  Definitely it will be a tool for something, time will tell.

The largest changes wont be technology but the processes by which projects get approved.  The relationships with the industry will (and is making) with environmental concerns.  Improved agronomic materials (grass types, fertilizers, amendments and others) to help in the process.

Hopefully, they (developer) will always need a PM/CM!

Phil

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2005, 09:56:59 PM »
I was eagerly anticipating a nifty and pointed riposte from Jeff!  ::)

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2005, 10:41:38 PM »
I believe he is down for maintenance.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Golf Course Construction Technologies
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2005, 11:45:48 PM »
The people that made the "invisible dog fence" have been involved with one of the turf equipment compnaies whereby the same technology can guide mowers in fairways and greens.

And, I also think greens construction technologies will become more economical and the USGA green may not be the norm.  

And cartpaths may one day be able to disappear
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

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