Second Tier Courses in St Andrews

[BCrosby]

My family and I will be in St. Andrews for four days in August. I have rounds set up at TOC and Kingsbarns.

I want to play some of the other courses in the area and would appreciate recommendations for the best of the rest. I've played New and would prefer to try other courses this trip.

Leven Links? Lundin Links? Eden? Others?

Bob  

[David Sneddon]

I always like playing the Jubillee.  

The other courses you mention are worth playing, as well as Scotscraig and Ladybank, both Open qualifier courses.  Elie and Crail (Balcomie) are very enjoyable too.

[Darren_Kilfara]

See, David's recommendations are almost exactly the opposite of mine - I don't fancy the Jubilee at all, and from what I understand Scotscraig and Ladybank are both rather mundane compared with some other alternatives like Leven and Lundin Links. I would agree, however, that Elie and Crail (Balcomie) are both worth seeing. And don't forget about the Eden in St. Andrews, which has a few awful holes at the far end of the property (replacing the holes which were bulldozed for the new practice facility) but a number of real corkers on either side of that, especially on the front nine.

Cheers,
Darren

[BCrosby]

Darren -

I have been intrigued by Eden for a while. Is there a lot of Colt still there - other than the 3(?) holes that were redone?

Bob

[Darren_Kilfara]

Yes, Bob, there is - I think the whole of the front nine is pretty much untouched, and there are a few pretty good holes on the back as well among the duff ones (I'd have thought anyone with half an eye for architecture can tell which holes are the new ones). If you've been intrigued by the Eden for a while, you should definitely check it out - if you've got four rounds to play I'd definitely play it and one of Crail (Balcomie)/Elie/Lundin Links in addition to TOC/Kingsbarns.

(By the by, I'm dying to go back to Kingsbarns myself in the not-too-distant future...when are you playing there?)

Cheers,
Darren

[Lynn_Shackelford]

There is a certain charm about Elie, some holes on the ocean, some right in town.  I understand it is no longer cheap.  Too bad.  Very straightforward, not hard, fast to play, but as Peter Thomson says, all courses built today should be like Elie.

[Mat Ward]

Darren: What are the 2nd tier courses you that you recommend, on the Kilfara 1-5 club throwing scale?

"1 club throw" being that its a so so course and not worthy of inclusion in the next book product to the "5 club throw-almost decapitate Paul Turner at Sunningdale-special"

[BCrosby]

Darren -

I will IM you.

Bob

[Bill_McBride]

Bob, I just played the Balcomie Links at Crail during my trip earlier this month.  Have to say I downgraded it just a bit from last year's round, but only because it is just very congested along the cliff earlier in the round.  Play was very slow.  You finish the 2nd hole and then stand around on the tee if there's much play at all.  You don't tee off on #3 until the FOURTH tee is clear as it is in the line of fire.  There are four greens and tees within 60 yds of each other on top of that hill which also makes you think about investing in a hard hat.  We had several close calls!

I think under normal conditions there isn't so much play, but it was very busy the day the Open started.  

Having said all that, there is just such a historic feeling there, and so many quirky holes, it really is worth a round.

I'm  hoping to play Elie and Lundin/Leven next time over.

I still need to play the New as well.

[Robert Thompson]

I thought Crail was 14 hole of great fun, with some oddities thrown in at the end -- not bad, just not as good as the opening.
There is a fair bit of the Eden course intact, but the Donald Steel holes are a disaster. Worth playing for some of the wild greens, though.

I see Steel has pulled down his website and is referring people to another company's site, Mackenzie and Debert. Anyone know what this is about?

[Evan_Green]

I'm interested why no one mentioned Crail Craighead- I have to assume if Ran has it reviewed on this website it must be pretty good.

What do people think of it?

[Tom_Doak]

Robert:

I heard a couple of weeks ago that Donald Steel was retiring from his architectural practice to accept the job as head of the English Golf Union.  His two associates, Tom MacKenzie and Martin Ebert (I hope I spelled that right; I've never met Martin) have set up shop on their own, and that's who he is referring people toward.

[Michael Whitaker]

Bob -Definitely play the Balcomie course at Crail. Some of the comments on here are a bit harsh IMO. It has been a BIG hit with three very different groups with which I've played the course.

I've never played Lundin Links, but a good friend who's opinion is similar to mine (perfect  ) just returned from Fife and had high praise for the course.

We played Scotscraig this past summer and found it to be a good test, but I would not consider it again before Crail, New, or Jubilee.

Have you ever played Carnoustie? If not, it is a very short drive. Or, scoot on up the road and play Royal Aberdeen.

[Darren_Kilfara]

Evan, in a previous thread I asked if the Craighead course at Crail was perhaps the worst course profiled on this website (a couple of months ago, I think it was). I don't think it's worth your time, whereas the Balcomie course is perfectly quaint - short and not terribly difficult (with a few notable exceptions, like the 5th and 16th holes), but with a real and obvious charm which most devotees of this website couldn't help but enjoy, methinks.

Cheers,
Darren

[Brian Phillips]

Robert:

I heard a couple of weeks ago that Donald Steel was retiring from his architectural practice to accept the job as head of the English Golf Union.  His two associates, Tom MacKenzie and Martin Ebert (I hope I spelled that right; I've never met Martin) have set up shop on their own, and that's who he is referring people toward.

Tom,

That is absolutely true.  They have now set up Mackenzie & Ebert.  Donald will still be consulting for them as well as working for the EGU.  They apparently have projects in 7 countries.

Bob,

I would definitely play The Eden so see Colt/MacKenzie's work on the front nine.  It is also a good lesson to see what modern architecture can do to an old course on the back nine.  I do not know what brief Steel and Co. received from the Links Trust but some of it is not a pretty sight.

I agree with Darren, I do not like the Jubilee and think it is just a long hard testing slog (not something I enjoy on holiday!).  I prefer the New to the Jubilee by a long, long way.  I also like Scotscraig which is a short linksy/heather sort of mix and fun because it is short.  Elie is good as well.

If you haven't played Carnoustie then I would play that over all the others but it depends on your budget.  

Cheers,

Brian

[David Sneddon]

Michael:

Lundin - when we tried to book Lundin they told us we would have to play from the 'Visitor's Tees'.  I was told that on some holes these were the same as the ladies.   Was your experience different???

Brian:
The reasons you don't like the Jube are the reasons I like it!!  
 
It is always the first course I want to play at StAndrews.  Seems to get me back into the groove of playing links golf.

[Andy Levett]

I liked  the Jubilee too. It's not as consistently good as the New  but it does incorporate the biggest dunes in St Andrews and has some memorable holes.

Back tee on the 8th:


Approach to the 15th - toughest shot in town?


Drive on 16:

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