[Mike_Cirba]

Brad,

If you were really a true minimalist, you wouldn't have answered.  

[Brad Klein]

Mike, I'm not.

[TEPaul]

For an example of real minimalism on a great course in the sense of very small earth movement I can't imagine one could find a better example than Sand Hills G.C.

I'd always heard it was minimal earth-movement but until reading how they did it I had no idea how exactly little was done.

Here's an example;

They say in the business that it typically may cost at least $40,000 to shape and built a modern green. At Sand Hills 17 of the greens cost $300 each to do. The other one (#4) cost around $40,000. The fairways and such on the course were basically just raked and seeded. Obviously they built tees and probably removed some vegetation and massaged some bunker areas.

SH was remarkably inexpensive to build compared to quality courses today. The majority of the cost that went into that course was the unique irrigation system. I say unique because they had to construct something that could actually irrigate the golf course IN THE WINTER! They have to do that because the cold and wind can get so severe if they don't irrigate it in those winter conditions the turf will dessicate.

[Marty Bonnar]

There was a young minimalist named Doak,
In hushed reverence, his name would be spoke,
Tom Paul lent him a 'Behr',
Now his designs all gone Square,
and his career has gone up in Smoke!

BOOM! BOOM!

FBD.

[Voytek Wilczak]

If the standard of minimalism is moving the minimum of earth or using the maximum of the existing contours, than Bayonne is not minimalist.

But it is.

A charming, Ballybunion-like design. I really hope that when it comes on line next year it will be celebrated here, not looked down upon, just because it is totally "artificial", built on a landfill. If the design is good (as it appears to be), and the course is pooh-poohed here, then this is not a Golf Course Architecture forum.

[Mike_Cirba]

Voytek,

A lot of fellows here (myself included) have sung the praises of Twisted Dune in south Jersey where similar to Bayonne, a LOT of earth was moved on a dead flat site.  So, I think people here will have an open mind.  

Especially if it turns out as good as Twisted Dune.  

[Tom_Doak]

Voytek:

I haven't seen Bayonne GC yet.  I might think it's great, I might not, we'll have to wait and see what everyone else thinks.

But why do you want to label it "minimalist" if they have moved earth all over the place to make it?  Do you really think it needs that label to be acclaimed critically?

Kingsbarns, among other courses, has been highly praised here even though everyone knows they changed the world to build it.  It does not need to be called minimalist in order to be praised, and Bayonne shouldn't, either.

[Voytek Wilczak]

Kingsbarns, among other courses, has been highly praised here even though everyone knows they changed the world to build it.  It does not need to be called minimalist in order to be praised, and Bayonne shouldn't, either.

That's good to hear (from you and Mike Cirba). I am certainly learning a lot from this forum and would hate to see it being limited to a narrow concept of "minimalism", however defined, and however praiseworthy. Recently a person here knocked a course because it had 5 "artificial" lakes, presumably using minimalism as his club. Architecture is bigger than that. It's like knocking Gaudi, Calatrava and Gehry because they do things differently from the canon.

[Forrest Richardson]

Here is the definition in my ON COURSE dictionary of golf course terms:

minimalism
Moving or changing a minimal amount of the natural terrain in shaping a golf hole or course (popularized by Ron Whitten)

minimalistic
Design and construction approach that involves the least disturbance, excavation and improvements to a golf course or hole that is possible while still acheiving aesthetic, playable and interesting results

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