[Dunlop_White]

Looking for suggestions about fescue blends, soil preparation, and undergrowth control for native areas in the Carolinas? Can anyone add to this?

Lesco's Fine Fescue Links Blend =
35%  Spartan "Hard" Fescue
35%  Pennlawn "Creeping Red" Fescue
20%  Shadow "Chewings" Fescues
10%  "Sheeps" Fescue

Sepeco's Fine Fescue Blend =
70%  Quatro "Sheep's" Fescue
15%  Eureka "Hard" Fescue
15%  Cindy Lou "Creeping Red" Fescue

Another Fine Fescue Recipe =
30%   Side Oats Gramma
30%   Little Blue Stem
20%   Jamestown "Chewings" Fescues
20%   "Creeping Red" Fescue

Distribution Rates: High Dry Lean Areas  (85 - 90 lbs. per acre)
                             Low Moist Areas   (70 - 75 lbs per acre)

Soil Preparation: Lift Kentucky 31 with sod cutter or mow it down completely, spray with a high rate of round-up, rota-till Basamid into soil, clean it and prep it, then hydro-mulch fescue blend for germination.
 
Weed Control and Undergrowth: use Trimec and Trimec Plus, which acts as a growth regulator by knocking back the green (broad leaves and weeds) leaving the seed heads. Keep fertility and irrigation away….very playable with a wispy look.

[paul cowley]

Dunlop.....we have had good success in Greenwood SC in areas of light shade [really anything thats not exposed all day to the broiler], with the hard fescues predominating in the mix.

 This has been in a mixture of clay soils, I'm not sure if we would get the same response in sand.

[Tom_Doak]

Dunlop:

The first two mixes are all fine, the third would produce a lot thicker area with more texture but less chance of finding a golf ball.

The actual cultivars of the different fescues don't really matter so much ... in fact since they are "graded" for color and your intention is to let them go brown, the seed companies' "best" varieties are not necessarily the ones you want.

The most important thing is to get the seeding rates really light ... somewhere between a half rate and a quarter rate of what's considered normal for turf.  Most people seed heavier to make sure they get quick cover over the dirt, but then if they get a good catch of grass you won't find as many golf balls, and it's quite difficult to thin them out after the fact.

Unfortunately I can't remember the precise seed rates for fescue, but I'm sure there's someone else here who would chime in.

[Scott Witter]

Dunlop,

Color, texture and certainly playability with finding the ball and having the ability to hit out of it would rank amongst your desired traits.  Therefore, the first 2 blends would achieve this, but it assumes, and this is key, that the rate of seeding is kept light.  Not knowing your owners point of view or what the superintendent might wish, but you'll need to keep everyone patient and let the fescues come in slow.  Trying to force the issue with a higher seed rate or the incorrect varieties will lead to many frustrations between the golfers, you and the superintendent attempting to control it.

The 3rd blend sounds a lot like an old blend from Lofts...and as Tom D. notes, it will lead to a thicker stand.  Texture is often misunderstood by many but getting the lighter wispy look is best.  Don't get lost in the sales pitch from the seed suppliers, do your research and choose varieties, with hopefully some experience from others to achieve your objective.

I couldn't respond to your thoughts and approach on chemical controls regarding weed growth etc. but your approach for preparation and seeding appears to be sound.

[RJ_Daley]

Are there any other selective grass herbacide applications besides the Trimec+ with the 2-4-D, Dicamba, and metharsonates to knock down the grassy weeds, nutsedges and barnyard grasses, and broadleafs, and will also act as a growth regulator of the understory blue growths?  In the end, isn't it that undergrowth of blues that ruin a good wispy stand.  How can the blue undergrowth best be suppressed, economically?  Doesn't the Trimec need to be applied at least once a month?  Is there any research on a selective herbacide that only goes after the blues and leaves the fescues?  Is that out of the realm of possibility?

What we see in Scotland roughs, how is it they don't seem to have the blue undergrowths or is that an illusion?  Is it strictly a matter of no irrigation spray and no fertility migration into the rough-native areas?

[Scott Ramsay]

There is a whole seperate science and management to these native areas. You also may consider transplanting/sprigging these areas as a supplement,little bluestem transplants nicely. In CT we can use a product called Vantage to remove all but fescues, it hammers the other cool season grasses. I used it on the bunker faces at The Orchards.Too much to post about all of the other chemistries we are using for woody,herbaceous and grassy weed control.

[RJ_Daley]

Thanks Scott Ramsay.  If you have time could you I.M. me and indicate the timing, frequency and application rates and costs of Vantage.  I'm going to look it up on a search engine too.  

[TEPaul]

There were a few areas of fescue (I guees you'd call it that) at HVGC which seemed to have every other kind of vegatation and its brother in there. It looked to me like that area left on #10 may've last got cut back in '99. If a ball went in there it was like a black hole and that's obviously why the areas was marked as a lateral hazard.

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Tom Paul,

You might be seeing a more native environment that consists of blue stems, wild ryes, switchgrass, indiangrass. a much more natural grassing scheme as compared to fescues, however it wants to be tall so it needs to be out away from play as much as possible.  

Dunlop,

In the NE it has been successful seeding the fesues at about 60 lbs. per acre to keep it thin yet wispy, easy to find the ball.  You might consider mowing down the Kentucky and then basamid the area, let it dies, aerify it then seed right into the dead grass, the dead matting provides an excellent seedbed, the basimid fixes nitrogen in the matting and you have an instant source of fertilizer.  Irrigation for establishment is key, even if you never use the heads again it is worth the investment to install for grow-in.

[Kyle Harris]

An aside question:

I've seen smaller "misting" irrigation heads used extensively in fescues (most noted in the areas around the fairway bunkers on 18 at Bethpage). They appear to be in some form of grid pattern.

What is the advantages to using them over a more traditional irrigation head? Cost? Water use?

[Scott Ramsay]

I would use a more selective approach than a total kill(Basamid) there are usually some kneehighs inherent to each site that would be useful. Another trial I have started is using Aurora Gold Fescue which is Roundup tolerant and keeping the volunteers in check with spot sprays of roundup.

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Kyle,

They are probably applying water directly to the faces to keep them alive.  If you use the bigger heads you over irrigate other areas, like fairways while trying to get enough water on the bunker faces to keep them alive.  I do believe that if you want to conserve water and apply it judiously you need a lot of heads that are designed specifically for the area intended for irrigation.  That is why you see these 2200 head systems.

[Michael_Stachowicz]

I would actually disagree with putting any but a small amount of Creeping red or Chewings fescue in the mix.  Blue, sheeps, and hard fescues produce a nice thin stand.  Creeper can get to aggressive to quickly and chewings has too long a leaf blade.  If quick establishment and stabilization is important, then the creeper and chewings are fine, but are not going to be that playable.  I would also second the rates being important.  

[Scott Ramsay]

I agree with Mr Stach. The hards and sheep fescues look great up close and from a distance but provide for some recovery shots.

[James Bennett]

Any comment on the preferred planting times?

We are endeavouring to use this in much of our roughs.  We have clay soils, and a Los Angeles type climate (ie mild, wet winters and warm to hot, dry summers).  

Any comment on the irigation necessary during the grow-in?

[Dunlop_White]

No real formula, huh?

It sounds as if you should always stay light with the seeding rates though..... and stick with the hard, sheep, and blues in the fescue blend, if playability is a concern...... and use chewings and creaping in the blend for texture and contrast, if playability isn't a concern....keeping fertility and irrigation away.....maintaining with applications of Trimec or Vantage to stunt the broad leafs and prepping with round-up and basamid and aerify for grow-in.

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