What Makes Severe greens Unfair/Ridiculous?

[Lynn Shackelford]

TE Paul
Funny you mention the 6th at NGLA.  I have a picture of the hole on the wall in my clubhouse.  The hole is cut far right and short.  Definitely a green within a green.  The beauty is you can hit the large part of the green and have the option of two putting from 30-40 feet.

[ward peyronnin]

Tom,

I believe the worst case at Lost Dunes No 4 is when the hole is cut in the middle swale and you're on the top tier. There is absolutely no way you can roll the pill and keep in the dip. That being said I still love the green. I think the harder play is number six hole cut on the right plateau playing it 460 yds from the orbital tees.

ward

[Tom Doak]

Ward,

Actually, there is a way to get the putt you described close to the hole.  I've showed it to several people I've played with, Ran and John Morrissett included.

If you hit the first putt way to the left, with just the right speed, it will boomerang way back to the right and run parallel with the terrace on the green and stay up.  I've actually two-putted this way a couple of times.  However, if the greens are very fast (above ten), you have to hit the putt PERFECTLY or it will turn back to the left at the end and go down below.

Unfortunately it's December 31 so you can't complete your homework assignment and report back to the group!

[Tim Weiman]

Mark F:

Regarding the greens at Ballybunion New, there is plenty of contour in many of the greens, but nothing as severe as a few of the greens at Doonbeg.

Despite four site visits, I still haven't played Doonbeg, so I don't know anything about how the greens are maintained. At Ballybunion New, where I've played many times, I never felt the pace of the greens was too fast for almost any pin placement.

Tom Doak correctly mentions the size of the greens at Ballybunion New being small. One might also mention that most are elevated making it impossible to run the ball on the green.

[bill_k]

Ward,  
    You are absolutely right about the front right hole location on #6 at Lost Dunes. when the greens have any speed at all, it is an impossible two-putt from anywhere outside that tiny shelf. Most of the time, I simply try to aim right of the hole and hope I hit my second shot somewhere close to pin high in the rough. It is a much easier par with a lob wedge than from anywhere on the green. What a fantastic driving hole from the back tees!