Fact Patrol,
Webster's Dictionary defines SURROUND as follows:
TO ENCLOSE ON ALL SIDES
Does the land pictured in MDugger's photos encircle the Sandpines property ? Does the land pictured in MDugger's photos ENCLOSE SANDPINES ON ALL SIDES ?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
MDugger should have said, here are some photos taken at
___________ which is ________ from Sandpines.
That would have been a more accurate presentation and would have avoided all of the confusion and debate.
How many interesting topics have you posted for discussion on this site ? Could you identify them ?
I believe, if you review the pages, you will find an abundance of interesting architectual subjects that I've raised for discussion. Could you describe your contribution.
In your great concern for this site, have you contributed money to the Morrissetts to offset the cost of running this site
How do you know what Mr Naccarato's INTENT was ?
You ask how you can contribute to educating the owner/developer community.
I can tell you, unequivically, that you can't do it anonymously.
Ask yourself, if you were a developer, and an individual didn't have the courage, and the courage to identify themselves, would you listen to their advice?
If you were really serious about the educational effort and the positive influence this site and the participants could have, you'd post under your own name, like me, TEPaul, Tom MacWood, Tommy Naccarato, Gib Papazian, Kelly Blake Moran, DMoriarty, Mike Cirba, Geoff Childs, Ran Morrissett and others who are interested in and concerned about the future of golf course architecture.
It's interesting that you expect Rees Jones to have that conversation with the developer over Sandpines which wasn't a golf course, but don't expect Tom Doak to have that same conversation with Arthur Goldberg, the owner of Atlantic City Golf Club, a William Flynn design that the owner wanted to dramaticallly alter, loosing forever its heritage.
Why single out Rees Jones, time and time again, to the exclusion of others ?
I've said, adopt a standard, apply it fairly, equitably, and universally, not selectively. And, I've suggested that everyone get ALL of the FACTS before making blanket statements. The pond/lake at Sandpines is a perfect example.
If it doesn't have a non-architectual value, then I might agree with Mr Naccarato's original assessment. But, If it does serve a purpose, then Mr. Naccarato's objections might be muted or refuted. But, before you can make that call, you need all of the FACTS. When I specifically asked about the pond and any requirements that might dictate its existance, I received a vague, non-answer on the subject. I also asked about the owner and his motives, vision, and concept for the golf course and go NO answer from anyone. If this is what the owner wanted, you can't fault Rees and Rees alone.
Did Steve Wynn get what he wanted ?
Did Ken Bakst get what he wanted ?
Did Robert Rudin get what he wanted ?
Do you think that owner/developers spend millions of their dollars, tremendous amounts of time and aggravation on getting a golf course that they don't want ?
I think you may be more than naive with respect to the awareness on the part of the owner/developer.
MDugger,
I appreciate your apology and quest to preserve your integrity
It would therefore be helpful if you could tell us exactly where those photos were taken, thanks.
Tom MacWood,
I've played fewer Rees Jones courses than you have commented on, without ever having seen them.
You're way ahead of me in that department.