Special People - Dick Youngscap, Ken Bakst, Roger Hansen and others.

[Patrick_Mucci]

My thread on " The top ten mistakes that green committees make" was really a trial balloon for my thoughts following my visit to Sand Hills and Wild Horse, two wonderful golf courses that appeal to every level of golfer.

During the day I would play Sand Hills, in the evenings the eight of us would discuss the golf course, and occassionally, Dick Youngscap would engage us in conversation and a question and answer session.

As much as I liked both courses, I couldn't help thinking how a membership owned club, with a board and/or green committee or both would alter and ultimately disfigure these magnificent golf courses.

Shortly after my return I played an interesting AWT golf course that clearly evidenced the hand of green committees over the years.

Some of my favorite holes or approaches at Sand Hills were
# 1, # 2, # 11, # 13, # 17 and # 18.  I happen to like skyline greens so these holes were very appealing to me.

When I played the AWT golf course I was disappointed that behind almost every green it was heavily planted.

I couldn't help but think how a green committee would QUICKLY ruin Friar's Head, Sand Hills and Hidden Creek.

At Wild Horse and Sand Hills I loved the wide fairways.

Lately, I've been a very straight driver, yet, at the AWT golf course some of the fairways were narrowed to approximately 15 yards or less in the LZ, despite the clear manifestation of a wide fairway foot path.  This was the work of misguided green committees.  These narrowed fairways and lush roughs are beyond the abilities of the membership to cope with, and as such, the golf course plays  other than as AWT intended.

In addition to the pinched in fairways, green committees had planted rows of trees to further choke off the corridors of play, thus penalizing the higher handicap golfer.

At my home club in NJ a similar process had occured years ago, yet, NOONE sees the problem.  And, due to TV and tournament golf, the perception that narrowed fairways are the wave of the present and the future is disturbing.

It's clear that only certain people are qualified to be the curators, the protectors or guardians of the golf course.
Paying equal dues should not necessarily entitle members to an equal vote.

It's also clear that green committees have lost their way .... as evidenced by their work over the last forty years.

Dick Youngscap, Ken Bakst, Roger Hansen and Dick and Herb Sambol are amongst those elite individuals who should remain curators in perpetuity.  I excluded Mike Keiser because his courses aren't "private", and as such he doesn't have "partners" to deal with, and I excluded Mike Pascucci because his course isn't operational.

So, I want to praise and thank these individuals for their vision, their love of the game, and the creation and  preservation of the golf courses that bear their influence.

And, I want to note that the best green committees are one man shows.

Thanks fellows, you've made golf more enjoyable for all of us, you've created a living legacy that we'll continue to enjoy for years to come and you've raised the bar for all those that follow that aspire to create great golf courses.

[Bob_Huntley]

Pat,

One of the great things that Mike Strantz has bequeathed  us with his Shore course, is his generous fairways. However, woe betide anyone who cannot hit them, the rough does come into play. When playing both Wild Horse and Sandhills I was reminded that this generosity allows us the exhilaration of a full blodied drive without the fear of abject failure.

Sand Hills is a complete examination of one's game, but at the same time without the concommitant of a disaster by one bad tee shot.

Bob  

[Larry_Keltto]

Paul Daley, in his book, "Links Golf," writes this when discussing club management structures:

"Several of the world's great golf courses owe much of their prosperity to dictatorships, where one man has overseen a club's progress through its formative, growth and mature years."

[A_Clay_Man]

Patrick, I really enjoyed this post of yours. As for fairway widths, It almost sounded like you have had a change in heart, or mind, or both? I do seem to recall you favoring the narrower fairway to distinguish the better player, and not all that long ago. If i'm in err, nevermind, but if this was an acknowledgement that you've had a change, I salute you for your honesty.

Now, Does it make any sense to go against the philosophy of Jones and Mackenzie at ANGC, even for the elite of the elite?

[ed_getka]

Patrick,
   Doesn't Mike K qualify with Dunes Club in Michigan? I would say Mike qualifys even with Bandon until he relinquishes control.
   Dick Youngscap has done a stellar job in every regard with SH, and I look forward to seeing the efforts of the others mentioned.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ed Getka,

I'm not familiar with the Dunes Club and hence omited it.

[TEPaul]

Pat:

I think what you saw, we all did, at courses like Wild Horse and SH and also at Friar's and Hidden Creek, is on those courses the architects and their clients basically got the app 5-10 factors we talk about all the time as ideal (both in architecture and maintenance) rolled into the equation and firing on all 8 cylinders. Basically they just got all those components in there and functioning properly.

Bill Coore sometimes says architecture (and the proper maintenance practices to make it function effectively) is sort of like composing a musical symphony. The "features" of architecture (including necessary maintenance practices to make them function properly) are like "notes" in music.

It's a matter of using the correct "notes" and arranging them correctly and you've got a great symphony.

That doesn't sound all that hard but he also said if you use a wrong "note" (feature) or arrange it incorrectly you get dissonance.

While that analogy may not be all that specific, I think it's a pretty good working analogy, in a general sense. And I think that's what we see on the likes of WH, SH, Friar's, Hidden, and a number of others now.

[Paul_Turner]

It will be interesting to see if those courses do really stand the test of time better.

[RJ_Daley]

It's clear that only certain people are qualified to be the curators, the protectors or guardians of the golf course.
Paying equal dues should not necessarily entitle members to an equal vote.

Pat, I definitely agree.  

When you name these visionaries, Youngscapp, Bakst, Keiser, perhaps Kohler, potentially Pascuucci, and historically Bobbie Jones you are speaking of the men that worked with the architects, and know exactly what they discussed prior to, during and post design/construction.  They collaborated to arrive at a theme, intentions, etc.  They are wise enough not to become butchers of their own great works.

Now, take a fellow like Hootie.  He didn't have a dog in the fight from the begining.  He didn't collaborate, or participate in the process with Jones and MacKenzie.  He isn't protecting a masterpiece that he had a hand in all the way.  He is protecting a toon-a-mint, an aura, a brand name, and a yearly happening that has been pretentiously elevated and public relations hyped to nearly a pilgrimage.  If a member at ANGC complains and makes a serious case about about changes contrary to Jones and Mac's intentions, what are their options?  

That won't happen with the above gentlemen.  You see, whatever changes that someone argues for, won't make a darn bit of difference because only those men and their chosen designers know what they wanted, and that is all that counts.  

But, the picture might become murky when these principal visionaries and founders pass.  Some of us passionate believers and supporters will argue that is what Dick or Ken or Mike wanted, but it will all boil down to a debate because none of us really knows what they'd do as the land, or the game evolve.

It is a dilemma that I'm sure those gents consider from time to time.

[RJ_Daley]

BTW, I really don't think you can put WH in that category.  There is a major figure (a Dentist) who has been the key main figure both in the idea, and the post construction shareholder-board leader.  But, it has been a board-commttee from the start.  WH has the potential to go very wrong if uninformed local "big shots" start looking at the course from their own personal perspectives.  The Doc can only keep them in line for so long.  I can tell you I once already heard a board member talking about major changes to their world class short par 4, 15th.  I almost puked.  But, there is no benevolent dictator there as it stands now.  Only a knowledgeable original Pres of the Board that was there from the begining.  That worries me when he moves on.

[TEPaul]

PaulT:

There is no question at all the Sand Hills will stand the test of time forever. I don't say that as just my opinion---it's pretty undeniable that course has been at the point of universal praise for a while now. That's not going to change from here.

[Paul_Turner]

Tom

Forever is a long time.  Will Sand Hills definitely be in existence in 100 years?

[Steve Lang]

 

re: TEP's reply#6 music analogy..

notes are important, but the quiet space between the notes is perhaps more important..

[Patrick_Mucci]

Redanman,

Probably Jack Lupton, the fellow behind The Golf Club, Mike Keiser, Herb Kohler and others.

It's not about C&C, it's about unique individuals who aren't architects.  It's modern day special people.
Crump, CBM, EF Hutton and others would qualify if I expanded the category to include visionaries from a different era.

[Mike Benham]

So, I want to praise and thank these individuals for their vision, their love of the game, and the creation and  preservation of the golf courses that bear their influence.

And, I want to note that the best green committees are one man shows.

Thanks fellows, you've made golf more enjoyable for all of us, you've created a living legacy that we'll continue to enjoy for years to come and you've raised the bar for all those that follow that aspire to create great golf courses.

Patrick - Thanks for saying it ... even though I have never enjoyed these courses or met these gentlemen, from everything I have heard from the people I trust, I know that you are right.

[George Pazin]

Hats off to all the people Patrick mentioned. I know Roger Hansen spoke of his profit motive, but I think he was not giving himself enough credit for his golf motive as well. Clearly these individuals all possess a love of the game.

There are a lot of lesser known people within our wonderful game that deserve a hat tip as well. Someone like Don Mahaffey, who followed his heart as much as his head in purchasing a small golf course in west Texas. Someone like Dick Daley who purchased a lot at Wild Horse. Heck, anyone who recognizes the potential at one of these special places and buys a membership - without torturing the green committee or green keepers - deserves a hat tip as well.

Writers like Brad Klein, Geoff Shackelford, Daniel Wexler, George Bahto, Michael Fay, Jeff Mingay, Lorne Rubenstein (and others I'll remember and be embarrassed that I didn't mention) deserve special praise as well, for enriching all our lives, with little opportunity for a cash cow producing bestseller. Thanks, guys.

The Morrissetts probably deserve the biggest hat tip of all. Well done and thank you.

[RJ_Daley]

George, truly I don't belong in the company of those you have otherwise mentioned. The writers and the internet impressario are really visionaries and special folk.

However, if we are into the backslapping this morning... ... it was you who had the sort of inspiration and faith in a dream who had his offer to purchase into Barnbougle shares before it was built, while it was only Greg Ramsey's dream.  To do so from the antipode of the earth, based merely on a few raw land photos, and the enthusiastic words of Greg's early prospectus was really a commitment from a fellow with vision, you sir!

[TEPaul]

"Tommy

Name 4 more that don't have a C & C connection......."

Pacific Dunes
Kingsley Club
Applebrook
Rustic Canyon