Sixth at Pebble

[Kyle Harris]

Alright, this may be sacrilidge to some of you out there, but would the sixth hole at Pebble be any better as a Par Four?

I've never played it, and have only seen pictures, but have read how Neville/Grant, et al always wanted to the ocean property that Nicklaus built the fifth hole on. If it was available to them at the time of their rebuild, would it have been reasonable to say that the sixth hole would be much shorter (i.e. a tee behind the present fifth green or thereabouts...).

Could this be a possibility for Open/Tour play only maybe?

[Mike Benham]

Kyle -

A great question ...

The distance of the hole will be not be the issue, it can easily be set-up so that all the pro's can reach the green in 2-shots, however, would it be unprecedented to have a completely blind second shot on a par-4 in the modern era of golf?

Mike

[Kyle Harris]

Lone Wolf Mike,

That's what I was thinking... I think it would work at a course like Pebble. Having a blind exacting second shot into that green would be exciting to watch and get that wonderful stretch of holes off right. Think Tiger in 2000...

Hell, maybe play it as a par four for two days and par five the other two... now there's options  

Or a par five for the first round there of the Pro-Am and then a four for the final round.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kyle,

For the PGA Tour Pros, I don't think "par" will affect how they play the hole.

For everyone else, it's a wonderful par 5, a three shot hole.

[Kyle Harris]

Pat,

Fair response and pretty much what I was looking for. I use par more as a measure of distance I suppose, since I believe most pros go for it in two anyways.

I imagine it to be one of the par fives that actual has some pressure on the second shot.

Could it be said that the hill acts like a "Hell's Half Acre" in putting pressure on both the tee shot and second shot's execution?

[A_Clay_Man]

Not sure what you mean by acting like hell's half acre. Maybe for the mis-hit, that finds the hillside (usually us hacks).

But the key to the second shot to the hole, is club selection. For one, the closer you are to the base of the hill the more there is a downhill lie influence and tough to get a mid-iron up. From the absolute base, the distance is a mere 185ish. Likely a seven iron, for a pumped up pro.

As to your original posit... Whose to say where that teeing ground would be located. Or, that Neville, Egan et al, wouldn't have decided to make it a dogleg 3 shotter, starting from the current fifth tee.

  Maybe then the twelfth might've been a better hole?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

It would be one of the blindest shots in all of golf. I guess you pick out a cloud or some clover to aim at when you are 100 or so yards behind your ball to set up the 2nd shot. Or you need to be 45 feet tall.

[PThomas]

if the yardage the pros hit it nowadays calls for it to be a five - I forget how long it is -- then yes it should be a par 4

Pat - you probably know better than I, but I would think the par MIGHT/WOULD affect how they play the hole

let's say it's changed to a 4...don't you think they would be thinking on the tee about that?

[Nate Golomb]

Kyle ~

The thought of a new tee for tournament play for #6 behind the new 5th green could bring a little excitement and surely make the course play more difficult at a par 70 (in relation to par anyway) However it would make the front nine a par 34 assuming #2 plays as a par 4 as well....give a little take a little I guess.

If a new tee is not an option, changing the 6th to a par 4 would not affect the players in an Open, USGA Amateur event, or the AT&T because they will all be playing the same hole in relatively the same manner. I recently played a tournament where two par 5's were moved up a little and played as par 4's....so par changed, big deal...Everyone plays the same hole, same yardage, same par. You don't necessarily think about the tee shot or playing the hole differently because you're still trying to make 3 or 4 whether it's a par 5 or par 4.

However, I do think it should remain a par 5 for the public regardless of the tee location because of the blind second shot and the length...

~The New Guy (Nate)

[Pete Buczkowski]

Nate:

Glad to see you made it to the board.  I especially like the golfing Gecko icon - Welcome and enjoy.

Pete

[Darren_Kilfara]

The proposed suggestion is VERY similar to what gets done at the 12th hole on the composite (Ryder Cup/US Open) course at The Country Club, Brookline - it gets changed from a short par 5 for the members into a long par 4 with a totally blind, very uphill and incredibly difficult second shot (which often has to be shaped around overhanging tree branches on the left). So this would not be an unprecedented change by any means...

Cheers,
Darren

[A_Clay_Man]

Upon further reflection, being on top of that hill, on the tee, is the only time you get to see what is up ahead and plan accordingly.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And IMO the sixth is a special hole, and to alter it conceptually, would be in err.

[Kyle Harris]

Adam,

Perfect. I needed perspective like that (had no idea about the visibility of the hole from the top of the hill). Seems to me that the hole is a legitimate three shot hole for 99.99% of the golfing world (I'd imagine for most pros too). Definately a keeper, but still a weird thought.