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peter_mcknight

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most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« on: June 23, 2005, 01:57:41 PM »
The following are the most difficult holes from the US Open Championship between 1995 and 2005.  The analysis used is the following:

Par 3--stroke average of 3.350 or higher
Par 4--stroke average of 4.500 or higher
Par 5--stroke average of 5.001 or higher


Par 3 roster:
Oakland 9th, 1996--3.391
Pinehurst 6th, 1999--3.395
Pebble 5th, 2000--3.381
Pebble 12th, 2000--3.360
Pebble 17th, 2000--3.436 (most difficult par 3 in US Open in decade)
Shinnecock 7th, 2004--3.413
Pinehurst 15th, 2005, 3.361

Par 4 roster:
Oakland 18th, 1996--4.536
Congressional 6th, 1997--4.533
Olympic 17th, 1998--4.716 (most difficult par 4 in decade in all majors even including Road Hole in 1995 and 2000 (2000 Road Hole is 0.016 behind--9 total birdies, including 0 in the 4th round)
Pinehurst 5th, 1999--4.549
Pinehurst 8th, 1999--4.500
Pinehurst 16th, 1999--4.504
Pebble 8th, 2000--4.534
Pebble 9th, 2000--4.557
Bethpage 12th, 2002--4.523
Bethpage 16th, 2002--4.600
(none in 2003, 2004 or 2005)

Par 5 roster:
Shinnecock 16th, 1995--5.125
Congressional 15th, 1997--5.013
Olympic 16th, 1998--5.254
Pinehurst 10th, 1999--5.092
Pebble 14th, 2000--5.376 (2d most difficult par 5 in decade in the majors behind Carnoustie 6th in 1999)
Pebble 18th, 2000, 5.089
Southern Hills 5th, 2001--5.181
Bethpage 4th, 2002--5.011
Pinehurst 10th, 2005--5.053

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2005, 02:15:36 PM »
Very interesting!  It would be fascinating if you could also give us the average yardages of these holes during their respective Opens.  

Geoffrey_Walsh

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Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2005, 02:25:36 PM »
Where did the 15th at Bethpage finish?  I thought that played as the most difficult hole that week.

peter_mcknight

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Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2005, 02:30:51 PM »
Par 3 roster:
Oakland 9th, 1996--3.391, 220 yards
Pinehurst 6th, 1999--3.395, 222 yards
Pebble 5th, 2000--3.381, 188 yards
Pebble 12th, 2000--3.360, 202 yards
Pebble 17th, 2000--3.436 (most difficult par 3 in US Open in decade), 208 yards
Shinnecock 7th, 2004--3.413, 190 yards
Pinehurst 15th, 2005, 3.361, 203 yards

Par 4 roster:
Oakland 18th, 1996--4.536, 465 yards
Congressional 6th, 1997--4.533, 475 yards
Olympic 17th, 1998--4.716 (most difficult par 4 in decade in all majors even including Road Hole in 1995 and 2000 (2000 Road Hole is 0.016 behind--9 total birdies, including 0 in the 4th round), 468 yards
Pinehurst 5th, 1999--4.549, 482 yards
Pinehurst 8th, 1999--4.500, 485 yards
Pinehurst 16th, 1999--4.504, 489 yards
Pebble 8th, 2000--4.534, 418 yards
Pebble 9th, 2000--4.557, 466 yards
Bethpage 12th, 2002--4.523, 499 yards
Bethpage 15th (corrected typo), 2002--4.600, 459 yards
(none in 2003, 2004 or 2005)

Par 5 roster:
Shinnecock 16th, 1995--5.125, 544 yards
Congressional 15th, 1997--5.013, 583 yards
Olympic 16th, 1998--5.254, 609 yards
Pinehurst 10th, 1999--5.092, 610 yards
Pebble 14th, 2000--5.376 (2d most difficult par 5 in decade in the majors behind Carnoustie 6th in 1999), 573 yards
Pebble 18th, 2000, 5.089, 543 yards
Southern Hills 5th, 2001--5.181, 655 yards
Bethpage 4th, 2002--5.011, 517 yards
Pinehurst 10th, 2005--5.053, 607 yards

Sorry for the typo on Bethpage 15th--yes that was the most difficult hole that week and most likely will be in 2009.

Matt_Ward

Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2005, 02:33:33 PM »
Geoffrey:

You are 1000% correct -- the 15th was featured a stroke average of 4.6 -- one of the highest among such holes in modern times.

And guess what ?

They didn't even play the hole from the maximum tees because of the positioning of a grandstand on the far portion of the tee box.

I can only hope the max tee will be an option for the next Open in '09. Widening the fairway a bit more on the left side would also be appropriate.

Phil_the_Author

Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2005, 02:45:48 PM »
Actually Matt you are correct yet have it backward. They put the grandstand on the tee box AFTER they decided not to use the tee because they felt the hole would be both too difficult and unfair from back there.

Matt_Ward

Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2005, 02:48:39 PM »
Phil:

Tiger, if memory serves, never used a driver on the hole. Playing it from the maximum is entirely fair game. It's hole where power and accuracy are demanded and if the short bunters can't handle it then a few more push-ups are in order for '09. ;D

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2005, 02:48:56 PM »
Peter, Thank you.

Phil_the_Author

Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2005, 02:57:25 PM »
Peter,

Could you double-check what the average for #13 on the Black was? If memory serves me correctly it too was well over par.

I do know that one of the more amazing statistics from the 2002 Open was that there was not one single eagle made by anyone who reached the par-fives in two. The only ones recorded came as a result of third shot chip-ins.

peter_mcknight

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Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2005, 03:01:52 PM »
Bethpage 13's stroke average was 4.941, the 2d easiest hole of the week (the 14th at 2.901 was the easiest).  I was a bit surprised that 13 played under par--my original assumption was somewhere between 5.05 and 5.10.

Geoffrey_Walsh

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Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2005, 03:08:51 PM »
Philip / Matt,

The USGA/Rees Jones never instructed that back tee on #15 to be built.  I believe Craig Currier had it built on his own.

I also seem to remember that the main issue with using the back tee box was that the grandstand would block the walkway between 15 tee and 17 tee which was one of the busiest paths that week.  I'm sure most remember the crowds 15-20 deep jammed in that walkway to watch Tiger tee off on 17 on Saturday.

Not sure how they would address that issue for 2009.  I guess they could remove the grandstand behind 15 tee but it remains one of the better tee shot views on the golf course (and you can see 16 green and all of 17 from the top row).

Good call on the eagle stat as well - I believe Sergio had an eagle putt hit the back of the cup and rim out on #13 and Cink chipped in on #4, no?


Frank Pasquale

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Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2005, 04:02:10 PM »
Geoffrey is correct about the Currier tee on 15.  I wonder who gets credit for the new tees on 5 and 9, and if they will be used as well.

BCrosby

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Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2005, 04:29:38 PM »
How many of the par 4's were designed as par 5's, but played as par 4's during the Open?

At the PII you've got the 8th and the 16th that normally play as par 5's. The 17th at Olympic normally plays as a par 5. Are there others?

A more interesting stat might be what are the toughest par 4's that were designed as par 4's?

Bob

Geoffrey_Walsh

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Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2005, 04:58:01 PM »
Bob,

#7 at Bethpage Black was played as a 4, but designed as a 5.  However they played the forward tee.

#12 & #15 were both originally par 4's but lengthened for the Open (more so 12 than 15).
« Last Edit: July 06, 2005, 04:59:00 PM by Geoffrey_Walsh »

Chris Perry

Re:most difficult holes us open 1995-2005
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2005, 03:22:07 AM »
I birdied the 17 @ Pebble. Does that mean I can join the tour?   ;D

Then again, the hackjob on 18 more than made up for it.  :'(