Course Design for Right and Left Handers

[James Bennett]

In some of the recent threads, I've noticed some left-handers commenting that some holes suit their high draws or their weak fades.  Do typical golf courses favour right handers more so than left handers (or vice-versa)?  Do we have more greens that are shaped from front right to back left than we do front-left to back-right?  What about fairway hazards?

I was also wondering about a typical Redan hole.  How does a lefty attack such holes - is a running fade possible?  I guess two possible answers to this question include
'who cares' (an inflammatory answer), and
'the same way a right hander plays a reverse Redan' (a smart answer).

I am also reminded of society's non-acceptance of left-handers, eg the Latin (or is it french) for right is droit (a la adroit, or good at something) whilst the latin for left is sinistra (enough said!).

Perahps hockey has it right.  You can only buy one style of hockey-stick (I don't know that it is branded 'right-handed' though).

[Mike_Cirba]

James,

That's a really good question.

As a mollydooker, I find it difficult to fathom all this hoo-hah about redan holes.  They are clearly impossible for a lefty, and only a tall, low-hitting fellow like redanman could possibly see the use of them.

On the other hand, reverse redans generally make for a perfect par three.  Sharp left to right doglegs also seem tailor made for my duck hook, and seem to me to be the proper differentiator between talents in the game.  

I've yet to see anyone...even Tiger Woods, able to hit a ball curving so severely left to right as I can produce, and it makes me heartened to see some architects can appreciate that particular shot.

[James Bennett]

Wedge Impressario Mollydooker

How is Molly these days?

I guess you'd like Augusta's #12 then.  That back right pin position wouldn't be quite so frightening.

As a right hander, my most difficult par 3 is the uphill, into the wind with the pin on the right, with the green set at a diagonal set up for a lefty's draw.  Its either a balloon block short and right, or a rolling hook into the fiendish back bunker,  A good miss dribbles on to the front right, awaiting a 65 foot putt!

[Andrew Summerell]

I've heard NSW GC referred to as a left handers course because it suits a left handers fade, which is meant to be the left handers stock shot.

Of course, I 'm a left hander that draws the ball.

[Jeff_Brauer]

In my various golf writings, I have been told it is politically incorrect to refer to lefties and righties.  Editors prefer that I refer to "right to left" and "left to right" shots, rather than fades and draws (presumably assuming right handed golfers) lest we offend left handed readers.......

In design, I suppose its the same, and perhaps another good reason to try for a balance in doglegs left and right, and other features that favor the fa......er, "left to right" shots.  

[Brian Cenci]

James,

Maybe its what I look for but I tend to find the better, longer tournament courses favor a right-handed draw (so I would be a high fade).  

But, your typical average course to above average courses undoubtedly favors a right handers left to right ball flight (a draw for me, slice for all you non-hockey players).  I played a course yesterday in Augusta, Michigan (Yarrow Golf Club, a Ray Hearn design) when I was hitting this high fade all day off the tee and it was fitting perfectly on almost every hole. But, in general I am still close enough to my competitive days where I can work the ball.  My preffered shot for example off the tee is usually a high-fade, so I lose maybe 10-15 yards (that darn top hand gets too far over the top sometimes to warrant me always hitting a draw).  But. typically on my irons I hit a draw...go figure.  

To answer, or at least interject my opinion on this post, it depends on the course.   But, if you were picking any course at random in probably favors the left-handed fade/slice.

-Brian

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Yes, I'm a left-hander who tends to fade the ball (let's be honest, SLICE big time), but I have a great double-handed backhand.

Personally, I like to see a course set up so that the competent golfer has to be able to move the ball both ways (especially on fast links where the running approach to the green is mandatory).  Royal Liverpool, to my taste, has a good balance between right-to-left and left-to-right moving holes, Birkdale, too.  A course on which my left hander's fade should have suited was Royal Antwerp, with 8 left-hand dog-legs, but I found myself frequently blocked out on the second shot having lost too much distance and position off the tee.  had I played it 10 years earlier I know I would have really enjoyed it.

[Jim Thompson]

Mike,

It seems to me that a redan would be easier for a lefty as he could open the green up and hold with a fade.  As a righty I find reverse redans to be much easier than the regular.   Help me understand.

Thanks!

JT

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike,

It seems to me that a redan would be easier for a lefty as he could open the green up and hold with a fade.  As a righty I find reverse redans to be much easier than the regular.   Help me understand.

Thanks!

JT

Jim,

My normal shot when I'm striking the ball well is a left-handed draw.  I actually finally hit a few shots yesterday that I was again proud of, so hope springs eternal.  

Hitting a controlled fade with a mid-iron is something I used to be able to do, but these days I'm more trying to just go for solid contact again.  Thus, the typical redan is like kryptonite to me at present.  I love them nonetheless.  

[Geoffrey Childs]

Well as a mollydooker who once again finds the only think right wing about me is that I hit it to the right (hook, pullhook etc.) I still managed to birdie the redan #13 at Yale yesterday!  

Normally I hate them as much as Mike and yet there is joy in nader's such as the lovely example at Sleepy Hollow that thankfully will now be saved from Ken Dye's plan to flatten the front left  .

ps- everyone needs to revisit Yale as it was playing beautifully yesterday.  Firm and fast even with our recent rains.  Mowing patterns that Raynor would approve and greens cut out to their entire fillpads. Maintenance is finally not an issue at the course at Yale  

[James Bennett]

I've heard NSW GC referred to as a left handers course because it suits a left handers fade, which is meant to be the left handers stock shot.

Of course, I 'm a left hander that draws the ball.

Andrew

I heard a great story about #6 par 3 at NSWGC, at least 25 years ago.  Story was of a nervous left hander concerned about not making the carry across Botany Bay from the back tee, so he 'laid up', short right with an 8-iron, leaving a short pitch to the green.  He shanked his second (sorry if that is an unmentionable word here) straight into Botany Bay!

I'm sure that there are similar stories for right-handers at Cypress Point on #16, ie lay-up safely, then shank (there's that word again) the second into the Pacific.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Perahps hockey has it right.  You can only buy one style of hockey-stick (I don't know that it is branded 'right-handed' though).

Don't know how I missed this, but that isn't exactly true! First, since the days of Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita, the blades have been curved, so a stick is righty or lefty.  And they have the technolgy problem going on as well - Players rave about how they picked up velocity on the slap shots with new composite shafts.  (The problem is from the goalies point of view, of course, although the shafts do break easier for some reason)

[James Bennett]

Perahps hockey has it right.  You can only buy one style of hockey-stick (I don't know that it is branded 'right-handed' though).

Don't know how I missed this, but that isn't exactly true! First, since the days of Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita, the blades have been curved, so a stick is righty or lefty.  And they have the technolgy problem going on as well - Players rave about how they picked up velocity on the slap shots with new composite shafts.  (The problem is from the goalies point of view, of course, although the shafts do break easier for some reason)

Jeff

I was referring to Field Hockey, a la Summer Olympics, not Ice Hockey a la Winter Olympics.  

[Andrew Summerell]

I've heard NSW GC referred to as a left handers course because it suits a left handers fade, which is meant to be the left handers stock shot.

Of course, I 'm a left hander that draws the ball.

Andrew

I heard a great story about #6 par 3 at NSWGC, at least 25 years ago.  Story was of a nervous left hander concerned about not making the carry across Botany Bay from the back tee, so he 'laid up', short right with an 8-iron, leaving a short pitch to the green.  He shanked his second (sorry if that is an unmentionable word here) straight into Botany Bay!

I'm sure that there are similar stories for right-handers at Cypress Point on #16, ie lay-up safely, then shank (there's that word again) the second into the Pacific.

James,

When the wind is blowing left to right at the 6th, you would not believe how far out into the ocean I aim

[James Bennett]

What happens at Cypress Point #16 when the wind is blowing right to left?  Where do you aim - a passing fishing boat perhaps?

Reminds me of one of Leslie Nielsen's great sayings - 'when playing over water, use one more club or two more balls'.

[Brad Klein]

3-4% of American golfers are lefties. 20% of Canadian. Blame hockey for that one. In any case, can we expect more varied designs North vs. South of the border?

I can't believe any designer wastes a minute worrying about lefty vs. righy play. Which way the hole bends, yes, but not which way the player stands. Most designers assume the vast majority of players fade/slice, and when they think of it, it's based on being a righty.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I am a lefty.  When I first began playing golf 40 years ago, some uninformed pro told me that courses were designed for right handed players, and thus I should play right handed.  I haven't found that to be the case.
As for redans, my problem is they look great design-wise, but don't look good to my golfing eye.  I welcome a reverse redan.  I haven't played many of his new courses, but older Nicklaus designs were said to favor a left to right shot, a favorite shot of Nicklaus.  The closest one to me is Sherwood and I would have to say that is true.  Maybe that is a reason I saw Fred Couples tear it up years back.
I wonder if in the set-up of the National Left Handers Championship, what thinking might go into their mind.  I would hope most set-ups in any tournament favor a balance, of demanding both kinds of shots of any golfer.

[James Bennett]

I thought I might add a thread summary.

1.  There can be an element of political incorrectness to refer to a hole as favouring a left or right hander.  Better to talk about left to right holes, or right to left holes.
2.  There are mixed feelings about how lefties play a redan.  Those who can hit a high fade may actually be at an advantadge to access the back left pin (although it would be a fine, worthy shot).
3.  There are always reverse holes.  Ideally, there might be a balance of these, not necessarily because of left handed vs right handed, but rather to balance against those players who can only play a particular shape shot, ie primarily left to right versus those primarily right to left (note - not draw or fade) whilst rewarding the true shotmaker who can do both.
4.  Whilst it may be politically incorrect to discuss a hole from the left-handed or right-handed perspective, it may be that architecturally it not necessary to consider this perspective.  The more important element is some degree of balance of holes.  (This surprises me, because I have always considered a draw a running shot, wheeras fades might carry less and stop quicker).
5.  There are a lot of left-handers in Canada.  Proportionally a lot more than the USA.
6.  Ice hockey sticks are ambidextrous, although prone to breakage.  Hockey sticks are single sided.
7.  Right handed faders may love reverse redans, but golfers (here anyway) enjoy redans even when they go the 'wrong' way.
8.  There doesn't seem to be much 'anti-left hander sentiment' on GCA.

[Mike_Cirba]

Did I mention that lefthanders are not only more creative, but better looking, as well?  

[Evan Fleisher]

Did I mention that lefthanders are not only more creative, but better looking, as well?  

I resemble that remark!!!  

[Jason Topp]

     Because a draw goes farther than a fade (for me I think it is about 10 yards for a solid shot into some wind), it would seem to me that greens angled from front right to back left would favor a right handed player.  A shot starting at the center of the green would either be on the green or close if it fades and on the green or close if it hooks.  

    A green angled the opposite way (new Pebble 5 or 12 at Augusta) would result in a much more wayward shot for a draw or fade.

    The opposite would be true for a left hander, making such greens play very differently.

[Brent Hutto]

Jason correctly points out the fundamental assymetry of shot shapes. A hole built on any angle at all, i.e. not totally straight and flat, plays differently for lefty and righty players.

For the majority of players who are unable choose their shot shape (and the majority of those have to live with a fade or slice) any dogleg, angled greens or tilted fairway will be easier for either lefties or righties on average. For instance, a long dogleg left hole is just plain easier for a lefty slicer than a righty slicer and if a course has six dogleg lefts and two dogleg rights any lefty slicer will have a easier time off the tee than his right-handed counterpart.

For better players who can work the ball as needed, the difference that Jason mentions is in play. Phil Mickelson hitting a fade is not equivalent to Tiger Woods hitting a draw, whether on a tee shot or approaching a green. I am convinced that any course offering numberous shotmaking opportunities will fundamentally be either easier or harder for good lefty players than for equally accomplished righties. The "redan" and "reverse redan" Par 3's differ in difficulty and which is easier depends on which side of the ball you're standing on.

I think this is a subtle and fascinating aspect of golf course architecture. It's one of the reasons I enjoy watching Phil Mickelson when he's in contention at good courses.

[Philippe Binette]

that's something you have to think about when you are building a course because lefties don't see the course the same way as the righties...

let me explain:

when a player (right handed) is over the ball, he looks down on the ball and then look at his target, he turns his head and in the process watch the entire right side of the course, so every feature on the right side will be more visible...

I discover that at my home course, having OB stakes closely to the right on the last 6 holes is very difficult mentally for the righties, because you see all the white stakes flashing up in your face, reminding you of the danger...

the lefties, they dont see that, the course is less intimidating..

ever noticed that...

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