Advice for a tour caddie going to St. Andrews?

[Thomas_Brown]

My college teammate, Mike Hartford, carries the bag every week for Pat Perez.  Perez qualified yesterday for St. Andrews thru the Western Open.

What advice do you give an American caddie taking his player around TOC?  Perez is the prototype young American pro - hits it very high and tends to make full swings.  Perez does have one advantage - a former Euro. tour pro as his teaching pro, Welshman Michael Owen.

Would someone with a knowledge for the game and the TOC - a Brad Klein, a Mark Rowlinson, or even a Naccarato be the best guide around the TOC?  or would a local caddie be better?  My guess is the local caddie would be the ideal if you get them to adjust to the American style that I guess a Perez or Daly ends up playing.

One thing we neglect to emphasize in the great ball debate with the USGA is its increased stablization in the wind.  With this ball's performance in the wind, why not play full shots up into the wind at the temple of the TOC?

Perez's stats. show him to very good out of the sand, not that Tiger needed it last time at TOC:
http://www.pgatour.com/players/stats/285342/2005

I've played TOC once.  Hardly enough to say I have a clue how to play TOC.

Which holes would you tell your player to "chip" 2 iron 250 off the tee and just play for the 2nd shot?  Certainly 16 right?  Or has that become another driveable par 4 now?  The road hole is even getting to point where a driver is the wrong play considering the angles(assuming at 320 yard drive).

My ultimate guess on this year's Open is that Shackelford will have a field day with some of the dramatic changes in strategy this Open will see.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom,
I would be the first to admit that caddying for someone with their hopes of making a living, on the line, I would be probably the worst guy in the world to rely on, especially on a course I love so much. I would simply be talking about certain things on the course with little regard to what Pat would have in mind in regards to scoring on it, and I'm sure Pat would be ready for a can of gas and a match by the 3rd hole if I did!

However, I do recommend Desmond Muirhead's book on the Old Course with Tip Anderson.* Also the Sandy Lyle book on how to play the Old Course is pretty good also. However, both of these GREAT books are worthless now thanks to the equipment, so thank you USGA and R&A for being great arbiters of the Game and protecting it so.

*Talk to me about this later in the week when I get home.

[Brian Phillips]

Thomas,

Get him to contact David Coyne who is a caddie there who actually does the ProCadGuides that all the local caddies use. Similar to the George Lucas course guides in the USA.

His e-mail is:

davethecaddie@hotmail.com

the website...if working is

www.procadguides.com

I also agree with Tommy about the books but that is a hell of a lot to take in within a week.

Brian

[Brad Klein]

Clue: the easy shot on the bulk of the par-4s and 5s is down the left, but in almost every case (except 9 & 10) the real bold line down the right side offers a much better angle of approach in.

It's tempting to say toss away your yardage book and just play ground game/bump & run shots. But that would be a mistake for a pro suddenly to adopt. I would just walk the course several times, and walk it backwards at least once from 18 green to 1st tee, and just look at positions. Sometimes, over the green is better than short; it all depends upon hole location. When a pro is playing well, all you really want to do is plan the hole backwards, thinking of the best line that will leave the simplest putt, and working backwards from there. It will be quite an adjustment, for both player and caddie. But the modern pros can play position golf, even if in its aerial form.

One thing. Good links turf is the perfect testing ground for those who are striking the ball well and those who aren't get shown up real fast. There's no margin of error, unlike with the softer turf of an inland or heavily watered layout. I'd pay a lot of attention to ball striking and position.

[Tom_Doak]

The main thing would be to play practice rounds with the older guys who know the course, so you can find out where the flags will be and when it's smart (or not smart) to attack them.  I know that Ian Baker-Finch played practice rounds with Kel Nagle and Peter Thomson prior to contending there in 1984.

Not sure who would be the "old hands" today who will actually play in the Open, though.  That is one great loss from the previous era when all former champions were eligible and many played.  It may be a more competitive event now, but the collective memory of the game is being lost in the process.

[A_Clay_Man]

On the telecast this week Faldo and Zinger were discussing TOC. Paul said he'd been there plenty of times, and still would'nt know how to get around today. Then Flado said what Brad said, above. That during the open, The right side is the better angle for the pin positions because they tuck the pins behind the bunkers. ( He may have even said, left,)

[Tom_Doak]

Faldo would be a pretty good person to play a practice round with, as would Jack Nicklaus.

As I recall, though, Thomson and Nagle told Baker-Finch to play away from the right side for most holes ... to try and make his birdies in the loop and on the two par-fives, and to be content to avoid the bunkers and two-putt from eighty feet on the stronger par fours.  As percentage golf, that's not a bad tactical summary.

[johnk]

Yes, get the speed down pat.  Practice a lot of 100ft putts, and putts from off the green... Even the pros use those a ton. 6-10 footers for par is not fun at TOC.   If it were me, I'd play a practice round with Els or another Euro, who plays the Dunhill regularly.

[Bob_Huntley]

Thomas Brown,

I have played in any number of medal rounds around TOC and have a couple of caddies that I could recommend. One of them is an American lad from Seattle, who is as professional a caddie as you will find in the St. Andrews yard.

IM me if you are serious.

Bob Huntley

[Mike_Clayton]

I don't know how well he gets on with Geoff Ogilvy but his caddy knows the Old Course really well.Sometimes you learn more from the caddies that the players.

Graham Heinrick does the yardage books for the European Tour and his St Andrews book is a masterpiece.He had his first go at it in 1990 and perfected in in 1995

[Thomas_Brown]

Thanks all the words of wisdom.
I forwarded this GCA link to caddie Mike.

I think Perez' practice rounds will consist of a session under another master, John Daly, the antithesis of Faldo.  Faldo would be my by pick for a mentor, assuming he wanted a dog following him around the course.

I also passed along that Faldo played the Road Hole as a par 5 in 1990 when he posted -19 to win.  I can't imagine anybody laying up from the center of the fairway in today's game.

[Brad Klein]

Daly, eh? Not the most observant partner for a practice round. His game doesn't translate very well to others, though it certainly works for him. I remember the telecast in 1995 on Sunday, when throughout the final nine Nicklaus kept saying that Daly was playing the holes the wrong way. It said more about Nickluas than about Daly.

[ForkaB]

I'd tell Perez and caddie to NOT try to change their aerial game.  Dance with the girl that brought you there.  Hit it high and let it fly!

[TEPaul]

"I think Perez' practice rounds will consist of a session under another master, John Daly, the antithesis of Faldo."

If Perez considers Daly some kind of friend or mentor he should learn what he can about the course from Daly (after all Daly won the British Open there somehow! ).

There's probably another good reason Perez should learn the course from Daly. Perez, like Daly, is one of the most volatile players on tour---they'd understand each others games and course management style.

[TEPaul]

Rich:

Post #12 is good advice. History tells us what you say is true---bring whatever game you're best at---even to that course and Europe. Look at Tom Wataon, one of the most successful Americans in the British Open ever. Watson was a virtual master in adverse conditions and weather but he always hit the ball high no matter where he was.

(Of course I don't know how many tour players have spent their careers practicing in the type of inclement weather Tom Watson always did.).

And it wasn't just that. Apparently Watson was the type of guy who actually relished adversity.

A few years ago Sandy Tatum stood up and gave a quick talk at a club and mentioned Watson and his attitude about golf compared to most other tour pros.

Tatum said if their ball landed in the bottom of a large divot hole most tour players bitch and moan while Watson would look at his lie, turn to his caddy Bruce Edwards and wink and say "Watch this!"

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I should be the last person to attempt to give advice to any professional golfer.  Their game is so hugely different from mine that I simply would have no clue about what is possible and what is not possible.  

In fact, I can't think of a course on which I would be more useless - it is so full of subtlety, quirk and individuality and nowhere are you presented with more possible options on each shot.

What would you advise your golfer to do if he found himself where Sanders was on the 18th back in 1970?  Do you say, 'The options are these....' and immediately put indecision into the player's mind?

How do you explain the twin threats of Road Bunker and the road itself on the 17th tee without putting doubt in the player's mind, yet without prior knowledge of them you would be hard put to aim the tee shot so far right and over that monstrous eye-sore, The Old Course Hotel?

[David Sneddon]

Thomas Brown,

I have played in any number of medal rounds around TOC and have a couple of caddies that I could recommend. One of them is an American lad from Seattle, who is as professional a caddie as you will find in the St. Andrews yard.

Can agree wtih your choice, Bob.  

Jeremy was on my bag last year and brought me in for a 75.  Knows the course like the back of his hand, every read was perfect.  Highly recommended.

Another top local caddie  is Alex Howie, one of the best on the links.  I don't know his last name, but Skeleton John did some PGATour work a couple of years ago, another top-flight caddie.

[Steve Lang]

 

if a feature has a name and you can't fly over it, stay left of it..

also practice putting on some linoleum

[TEPaul]

Mark:

Obviously a good tour caddie has to know a whole lot more than just the golf course like the back of his hand. He has to be totally familiar with his player, the way he hits all his shots and his basic management style. If a caddie doesn't know the latter really well his advice in something like club selection will be more than worthless---it will result in mistakes with even well exectued shots.

I love the story of Ray Floyd and his excellent caddie "Golf Ball" regarding the latter. "Golf Ball" knew Floyd's game like the back of his hand. But at one tour stop Ray and Floyd are on the fairway of the first hole and Floyd says to "Golf Ball" "What have I got on this approach?"

"Golf Ball" consults his yardage book and tells Ray he has a 185 yards to the pin, and gives Ray a 5 iron which Ray hits about 30 yards over the green.

Ray says: "What the hell was that?

Golf Ball says: "Well from where you hit your drive it says 185 yards to the pin."

Floyd: "Let me see that."

He looks at the yardage book and says;

"Golf Ball, you idiot, this book says Memphis. We're in Houston this week".

[David Sneddon]

Mark:

Obviously a good tour caddie has to know a whole lot more than just the golf course like the back of his hand. He has to be totally familiar with his player, the way he hits all his shots and his basic management style. If a caddie doesn't know the latter really well his advice in something like club selection will be more than worthless---it will result in mistakes with even well exectued shots.

If Perez wants to use his regular caddie, then I'd suggest he hire one of the recommended caddies to accompany them on their practice rounds and advise them on the nuances of the course, greens etc.  It certainly would be well worth the $$ investment.

[Bob_Huntley]

David Sneddon,

I agree with you about Jeremy.

The two I would recommend would be Jeremy Short and Isaac(Ike) Sproule, the latter plays a good jig on the bagpipes.

Bob

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Having caddied in 5 British Opens, including one at St Andrews, I can promise you that by the time Thursday roles around, Pat will have all the info that he needs.
The other players and wealth of info in the locker room will have him more than ready in terms of course strategy.
However the guy who does the star wars yardage books would be a great idea.

[Mike Benham]

It's not all about the golf or the course, tell him to head to Anstruther's for some awesome fish and chips ...

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