Arthur Hills design comments...

[Brian Cenci]

I recently was playing yesterday at my home course (Forest Akers - West in Lansing, MI) and they were promoting this Arthur Hills Golf Trail in Michigan.  Which got me thinking what everyone's elses opinion was on this architect.  I went to his web-site and apparently have played a lot of his courses from when I played competively and never really knew.

courses I've played of Arthur Hills (in no particular order):

Bay Harbor Golf Club (Michigan)
Boyne Highlands (Michigan)
Shephard's Hollow (Michigan)
Egypt Valley Country Club (Michigan)
Red Hawk Golf Club (Michigan)
Country Club of Jackson (Michigan)
Fieldstone Golf Club (Michigan)
The Thouroughbred (Michigan)
Forest Akers - West @ MSU (Michigan)  --> a redesign in 1992
The Club at Pelican Bay (Florida)

Most of these courses I would classify as good but none of them great.  Three of them I have in my personnal top 25, that being Bay Harbor at #16, Red Hawk at #22 and Forest Akers - West at #25.  With Egypt Valley and Shephard's Hollow just out of the top 25.

Most of his courses have the same feel and nothing is absolutely superb about any of the courses, allthough there is not a lot that  I can complain about.  All in all his courses are fun to play and usually are some of the better maintained (which isn't really to his credit specifically).  His routing is a little akward sometimes (4 par 3's within 6 holes at Forest Akers - West) and I think he would be well suited in trying to make things a little more natural (see Bay Harbor).  

His crowning work, which is probably Bay Harbor, is a great great piece of proeprty and the Links/Quarry 18 is consistently top 50ish in all the publications.  But, while I can't take away the fact that it is a good course, I would think that some of the top new modern designers could have made the course much better.

So, I am curious at to what others think of his work.  I guess my base opinion is most of his courses are like in the 6 to 7 out of 10 range and really don't stray far from that.  I've never played a course of his that I didn't like, which also is a credit.

[Mike McGuire]

Yawn

[cary lichtenstein]

I have played alot of Arthur Hills courses and they are "underwhelming"

[Brian Cenci]

Mike,
     Just "yawn"...no comment?  I can see what you mean because they are all very very much the same...except Bay Harbor in not a "yawn."  It is a fun and sometimes breathtaking course to play...even though not the best designed holes with the available land.  Red Hawk in Tawas, Michigan is a good course too.  I just think that his courses are all decent and some of them are good.

-Brian  

[Cliff Hamm]

Newport National in Rhode Island is a strong course - http://www.newportnational.com/  A links style course that offers lots of options in wonderful shape.  Opened in 2003 as a private course, went bankrupt, and now open at least for awhile  to the public.  Golfweek recently named it number 18 in a list of new courses.  Well worth playing.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Brian,
  I've played many of his courses as I am from Grand Rapids. I find his design style as "never pushing the envelope or trying anything different" He makes sure that he is "safe" on his designs. I've played Thoroughbred, both courses at Egypt Valley, Hawkshead, Forest Akers West (The current routing is not how he re-designed it) and Red Hawk... I could pick one hole off each of those courses that looks like another at each of them. He just stays too much in his comfort zone.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[wsmorrison]

His "restorations" on classic courses are a questionable use of the term.  

[Craig Van Egmond]

I have a played several Hills courses, including Bay Harbor and Half Moon Bay, and while those two have some nice views, underwhelming would be a good word. Some good holes but I came away from both thinking the course could have been better.

None of the courses were bad, but none of them were great either.  I certainly wouldn't seek out any of his courses given other choices.

Apparently his clients are happy, because he has built alot of courses. (Over 200 I think)

[Brian Cenci]

Well so far everyone, or at least most people that posted, has my viewpoint.  Good not great and could have been better.  

[William King]

I have only played 2: Pevely Farms in StL and Shaker Run. Pevely Farms is about what the general opinion has been: fun but not WOW! However, I think Shaker (at least the original 18) is a cut above and in the top 5 of what I have played in my limited experience. What may be more telling is that I have never stepped foot on his course that is less than 30 min from my house.

[Brian Cenci]

Sean,
     You ever have a chance to play Forest Akers - West?  I really think it is a nice course that is underated.  It happens to be my home course and over the last 4-5 years have begun to really appreciate it.  It is one of the few courses that I've played where I've never heard anyone else talk about it as being a good course.  But, I think that the course, ever since Hills redesigned in in 1992 has really matured.  A cool thing about the course are the trees.  It has every species of tree on the course native to Michigan (I forget the total number).  It is very well maintained (as it should be with MSU's turf grass management program) and it has some strategic bunkering that makes for different shot selections depending on the tees you choose.

-Brian
     

[Cliff Hamm]

Brian..I often played Forest Akers back in the mid 70's and then played it again last year.  What was noticeable was the attempt to make it up scale.  I liked the atmosphere more when the golf shop was the 'shack' on Harrison. They used to have a green about 180 yards away near the golf shop where you could practice.  Very low key and enjoyable.  Now there's a hotel, they want to take your bag, etc.  As to the course always enjoyed it and as a student what  a great deal!  Only played the new layout once but I wasn't convinced the Hills holes fit with the rest of the course - for example 18.  Still think it is a very fine course and agree underated.

Cliff

[John_McMillan]

His crowning work, which is probably Bay Harbor, is a great great piece of proeprty

It's hard to call Bay Harbor a "great piece of property."  It has great views, due to its Lake Michigan frontage.  However, the site is a converted cement factory.  

One of the primary functions of the golf course is to cap the cement dust, and prevent it from contaminating Lake Michigan.  From what I've been hearing, the engineering which did this has not been sufficient, and there is a large fine for someone in store down the road.  

[PThomas]

I agree with the consensus (GCA consensus?  an oxymoron/hsitorical first!?!?!?) re the Hill courses I've played, Half Moon Bay, Stonewall Orchard, etc...

[Brian Cenci]

John,
     Bay Harbor isn't necessarily a great piece of property (you are correct)....how about a great setting.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I've only played a few Arthur Hills courses but I would hazard a guess that Bay Harbour or Shepard's Hollow are as good as or better than at least 50% of our (GCAer's) home courses.  I agree with almost all the comments about Arthur Hills designs in general but having just played Shepard's a few weeks back I can think of a lot crapier courses one could visit in a lifetime.  Nothing blew me away, but it was solid golf from tee to green.  You gotta love the 18th at Half Moon Bay, though!

[Brian Cenci]

Andrew,
     Shephard's Hollow is a pretty nice course considering the area.   It's in my top 50, but not top 25.  Its good golf, especially around the Detroit area which doesn't have too many quality public golf courses.  I played it this year for the first time and I haven't played too many other publics in the area that I thought were as good or better.

-Brian

[Willie_Dow]

Wayne and Tom -
Your trip north must include a look at Newport National.  As I've said before it's the best I've seen by Hills.

[Mike_Cirba]

Wayne and Tom -
Your trip north must include a look at Newport National.  As I've said before it's the best I've seen by Hills.

\\

Bill,

I haven't played Newport Nat'l, but I love the way you almost never have a bad word to say about any golf course.

Keep it up and you're going to get the Jim Finegan Lifetime Achievement award!!  

[Anthony_Nysse]

Brian,
  You wrote "It is very well maintained (as it should be with MSU's turf grass management program)-Did you know a Penn State Graduate is the superintendent there?

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt and MSU Grad (2002)
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Jfaspen]

Brian, I too consider Akers West my home course and try to play it often.
As someone else said, in order to make the hotel "work" the course was re-routed about 4 years ago...  The par 3's were not always near each other.  
I think Akers west is a very good and VERY challenging course.  In my opinion, the course (as opposed to the east course) really puts a premium on hitting the green or missing on the correct side of the green.
- The course could benefit from some tree removal.. There are places where you can be in the fairway and be completely blocked out because of the overgrowth.

Isn't arthur hills designing liberty national?  Seems like it could be another piece of property to be given a 5 on the doak scale.  I guess we will wait and see.

jf

[Jonathan Davison]

Has anyone played the Art Hills course in Portugal Oitavos, or his course in Sweden - Hills golf club.
Both courses look very good, not sure if they differ from what you have in the States.

[Steve Lang]

 

Growing up in Toledo, I've know of Art Hills for many years, he was the local gca who made a living at it.  His firm did some work at Inverness I believe.. and he brought back my beloved Ottawa Park from misery.  His design company's location was just down the street from my swim & tennis club, in a very non-descript building (? behind his house) on what used to be the far out west side of Toledo on Bancroft St.. and has been for many years..

I know several real architects (i.e., ones that build buildings) and I simply put Art Hills in the "builder" versus the "artiste" basket regarding his work.  Someone has to be the architect of record for schools, strip malls, post offices, etc.. buildings -things with specific utility needs etc..  not everyone can be Frank Lloyd Wrights in their practice..

I can only assume that his firm is very cost effective in what they do, and that marketing & hype from developers not withstanding, his work is what it is.. not much eye candy, not much cutting edge aesthetics, just a course or venue where a game is played.

p.s. I'm no apologist for his designs, but how many critics break par at his courses?  

p.s.s. Shepards Hollow is a good venue near Clarkston

[David_Madison]

Hils did push the envelope a bit with TPC Eagle Trace in Coral Springs, FL. That was the site of the Honda PGA Tour event for a number of years. The tour players hated it, thought it terribly unfair. It was the second TPC course, a real target course that copied in a bad way much of TPC Sawgrass. Problem was that this target course was built on the edge of the Everglades, and often the wind howled. It had lots of water hazards right next to greens and fairways, and avoiding those put you in plenty of other trouble. The greens and fairways would get rock hard, and had these slopes that would send shots that at first seemed okay to the water. This was the course where one year the winner of the tournament shot an 81 in the third round.

After playing the course for the first time, Jack Nicklaus gave Dean Beman a detailed two page list of needed changes. After awhile the course was modified a bit, incorporated much of what Nicklaus suggested plus what others wanted, and when the wind wasn't crazy and the greens holding, it was a reasonable course with some interesting design.

[Clay Huestis]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Dunes Club at Sevilla in, just a few minutes away from World Woods in Brooksville, FL.  It 's the only Art Hills course that I've played (at least I think it is) and I see it as an opportunity lost.

On the one hand, it is a solid course, probably once again a nice 4 or 5 on the Doak scale, and it is pretty cheap as well...I think I usually pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $30 to play it.  However, given the terrific, sandy and rolling land, the site could have easily produced a 7 or 8.  I really don't see any notable difference in the terrain from WWPB for instance.  The course doesn't utilize the best sandy areas much, with the 2 or 3 holes up in that corner being the best of the lot.  The course is incredibly spread out to accomodate future housing...check out the aerial at:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=4247

The housing development there hasn't really taken off either, adding to an overall "unfinished" atmosphere.

They run a lot of shotguns there in the winter, and one quirk of the routing is that the 1st hole is a par 5, as are 17 and 18....so  unless you start on 1 or 18, at one point you play THREE consecutive par 5s.

Sounds like my opinion of this course fits in with what everyone else is saying about Hills...he's not doing bad work, but nothing too inspiring either.  Dunes is 20 minutes from my parents' house, so I play it whenever I visit them, and although I enjoy it and it is better than most of the generic Florida housing track stuff near them, it could have been so much more.

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