[Dave_Miller]

The 44th Northeast Amateur Invitational, played at Venerable Wannamoissett CC in Rhode Island, concluded yesterday.

The Northeast Amateur has hosted some of the best players in the game over the years and some notable past winners have included Marty Fleckman, Bill Hyndman, Ben Crenshaw, Hal Sutton, Jay Sigel, Bob Lewis, Jr, John Cook, and Luke Donald among others.  

The Tourney Record of 268, Eight under, on the Par 69 course is held by John Cook, Luke Donald and now yesterday's winner Kyle Riefers of Wake Forest University.

Wannamoissett played at 6688 yards and it is interesting to note that the record of 268 is still holding up despite the length barrage unleashed by today's players.  

The architecture of Wannamoissett is such that Par is defended beautifully at the Greens without tricking them up to ridiculous speeds.  

While there were a couple of Par 4's that appeared driveable by certain players and a couple did drive the green on Number 14 and were putting for eagle.  Very few made it.  Most who tried to drive the Green wound up in Greenside bunkers with a very difficult shot onto the green.  

There is only one Par 5, Number 17, and several long Par 4's in the range of 460-480.  

Great golf was played by some of the very best amateurs in the country.  Yet despite the perceived lack of length the course defended itself very well.

Do the older courses such as Wannamoissett with the great use of the land and outstanding green complexes defend better than the newer courses of today despite the length?

Fairways and Greens,
Dave

[Geoffrey Childs]

Dave - I agree wholeheartedly with your post.

I was lucky enough to play Wannamoisett a couple of weeks ago and it is an absolute gem with the best set of Ross greens that I have seen.

Another example of a course that defends itself well was seen on TV yesterday.  Westchester CC also has the variety seen at Wannamoisett with drivable and very long par 4's.  Westchester CC also has a set of greens with pin locations that can fool even the best players in the world. The added benefit of courses such as this is they allow everyone to be competitive not just long bombers.

[wsmorrison]

Good morning, Dave.  Has Wannamoissett always been a par 69 or at some point were shorter par 5s turned into par 4s?  If it has been a par 69 all along, the long par 4s would certainly keep things competitive vs. par.  

Only one par 5, so the course is long as par 69...it is about 100 yards shorter than Philadelphia Country Club's Spring Mill course was during the 1939 Open where it played as a par 69.  There was a three-way playoff at 284; 8 over par.  Nelson thought the long par 4s were to his advantage as he was the best long iron player of his era.

[Jimmy Muratt]

Dave,

I think you ask a great question with your last line:
"Do the older courses such as Wannamoissett with the great use of the land and outstanding green complexes defend better than the newer courses of today despite the length?"

I wholeheartedly agree with that statement and feel that courses with difficult greensites and variety make themelves challenging to the very best players yet also playable by everyone.  

A challenging 6700 yard course such as Wannamoissett or Merion, with their difficult greens and penal bunkers would stand up to good players far better than a 7200 yard course that is straight forward with bland greensites.  

Even if a good player has a wedge in his hand, if you can instill some sort of fear in that approach and make the margin for error very small (as it should be with a short iron) you will have both an exciting and difficult course to play.

[Dave_Miller]

Good morning, Dave.  Has Wannamoissett always been a par 69 or at some point were shorter par 5s turned into par 4s?  If it has been a par 69 all along, the long par 4s would certainly keep things competitive vs. par.  

Only one par 5, so the course is long as par 69...it is about 100 yards shorter than Philadelphia Country Club's Spring Mill course was during the 1939 Open where it played as a par 69.  There was a three-way playoff at 284; 8 over par.  Nelson thought the long par 4s were to his advantage as he was the best long iron player of his era.

Wayne:
To the best of my knowledge it has always been a par 69.  Built on 94 acres.
Just outstanding
Best
Dave

[Willie_Dow]

Hi Dave
The first NE Amateur I've missed in many years.  Enroute north after the 4th to play in Seniors at Kittansett.  Let's get together !
Interesting to note Best in State November '93 Golf Digest was Wannamoisett, followed by Rhode Island CC, Newport CC, Pawtucket CC and Metacomet CC.
This year it was still #1, followed by Newport, Carnegie Abby,Rhode Island CC, then Newport National GC.
Still can't follow its among the 18 departures, being 44th in 2003.  This new panel threw in many new arrivals which I wouldn't know much about, however.
Best to you, Willie

[Dave_Miller]

Hi Dave
The first NE Amateur I've missed in many years.  Enroute north after the 4th to play in Seniors at Kittansett.  Let's get together !
Interesting to note Best in State November '93 Golf Digest was Wannamoisett, followed by Rhode Island CC, Newport CC, Pawtucket CC and Metacomet CC.
This year it was still #1, followed by Newport, Carnegie Abby,Rhode Island CC, then Newport National GC.
Still can't follow its among the 18 departures, being 44th in 2003.  This new panel threw in many new arrivals which I wouldn't know much about, however.
Best to you, Willie

Bill:
That's unbelievable and just shows how and hype and publicity can influence these ratings.  Carnegie Abby cannot come close to Pawtucket or Newport National.
Call me when you get to Mass.
Best
Dave

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

191.1 Yards per shot - not bad.

Glad to see a Demon Deacon take the prize!

JWK

[Cliff Hamm]

Wannamoissett played at 6688 yards and it is interesting to note that the record of 268 is still holding up despite the length barrage unleashed by today's players.  

The architecture of Wannamoissett is such that Par is defended beautifully at the Greens without tricking them up to ridiculous speeds.  


Great golf was played by some of the very best amateurs in the country.  Yet despite the perceived lack of length the course defended itself very well.

I would take nothing away from Wannamoisett.  Yes, the record score held up, but the number of scores under par was a record.  This from Golfweek:

 How amazing was the scoring at this year's tournament? Consider that in the previous 43 years, the most in any one event to break par was six, that coming last year. Among the 82 in the starting field, one that featured nine of the top 10 players in the Golfweek/Titleist Amateur Rankings and 14 of the top 15, there were 17 players under par. That's just seven less than the 24 under-par scores posted in the previous 43 Northeast Amateurs.

[James Bennett]

Wayne:
To the best of my knowledge it has always been a par 69.  Built on 94 acres.
Just outstanding
Best
Dave

94 acres.  Wow.  I've heard a lot about Wanamoisset.  Is there a routing plan?  I'll check their web-site again - haven't been there for a while.  I know that there is a write up here on the course summary but a routing plan or course aerial would be interesting.

It is great to see a course with a par of 69 retain its original identity/playing characteristics and still get recognised for local major events.

[James Bennett]

Its spelt Wannamoisett.  Its the Wannamoisett Country Club.  Hard to find on the web when you get the spelling wrong!

Unfortunately, the club web-site is 'members-only', so I couldn't access a routing.  Is there a 'google-aerial' on GCA for Wannamoisett?  

[Dave_Miller]

I would take nothing away from Wannamoisett.  Yes, the record score held up, but the number of scores under par was a record.  This from Golfweek:

 How amazing was the scoring at this year's tournament? Consider that in the previous 43 years, the most in any one event to break par was six, that coming last year. Among the 82 in the starting field, one that featured nine of the top 10 players in the Golfweek/Titleist Amateur Rankings and 14 of the top 15, there were 17 players under par. That's just seven less than the 24 under-par scores posted in the previous 43 Northeast Amateurs.

Cliff:
You also have to take into account that the course set up this year was very benign.  There was very little rough and nothing was done to trick up the course such as the USGA would do.  
This course held up great despite some more players getting under par.  Length would not have made much difference in the scores.  The hole locations were only difficult on Saturday and there were very few under par rounds that day.
Best
Dave

[Scott_Burroughs]

Is there a 'google-aerial' on GCA for Wannamoisett?  

There's one here:  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=3508&start=0

(BTW, you can find a link to an aerial of most of the best courses in the country here:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=7479;start=msg144651#msg144651)

Here's another aerial of Wannamoisett:

[Cliff Hamm]

Dave

I do believe that Wannamoisett is a wonderful layout and agree with your basic point that the older layouts hold up better than the newer courses.  Westchester might be as good as an example as any.  I did not make it to the Northeast this year but I suspect it was set up the same as other years yet  overall the scores were lower.  Eight under to me is amazing at Wannamoisett and the number of rounds under par is astounding.  It just shows the calibre of golfers and takes nothing away from a great layout.

Cliff

[James Bennett]

Scott

thanks for the aerial, and a reminder of the fantastic course list of aerials from around the world.  I stumbled across an old one of Commonwealth here down under - it is a course I have visited on several occasions over the last two years.  I wouldn't have got the relative location and direction of the holes right from memory.

thanks again for the aerials collection

[Willie_Dow]

After that ariel can anyone wonder why this would be taken out of the top 100

Come on Jerry Tarde - I know you from 1981 !

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