2012 PGA Championship @ The Ocean Course

[APBernstein]

I believe an official announcement is planned for Thursday, but word around the Lowcountry is that the 2012 PGA will be played at The Ocean Course.

[Jfaspen]

Wow!

Awesome..  I was hoping to see this course receive a major (Isn't a Senior Open scheduled).  I'd be excited to see a little wind kick up and see how the pros deal with it.

Hopefully try to see it when I trek down to charleston this january.

Congrats Mike.

Jeff

[James Edwards]

Looks like Pete Dye is starting to increase his major count  

[Jerry Kluger]

I am a big fan of the Ocean Course and if the wind is blowing it will really present a worthy test no matter what equipment is being used by the pros 7 years from now.  No doubt there will be some who compare it to Whistling Straits and in my judgement they will only compliment each other.  

[Geoffrey Childs]

I too am a big fan of the Ocean course.

Congratulations to Pete Dye and to the resort.

I can't wait to see how that one is set up.  

[James Edwards]

Jerry,

I agree.  I will say, I think The Ocean Course is a better golf course though.

[PThomas]

hardest course I've ever played, even harder than W Straits, IMHO

[Matt_Ward]

Where is Mike Vegis when you need him ?

[Jason Topp]

Given the PGA's recent history of creating reasonable set ups, it should be a fun tournament.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

All the PGA bigwigs were at the Ocean Course today.  I had the great pleasure to meet Pete and Alice Dye today.  When I asked him if he was Pete Dye, he joked that it depended upon if I liked the course.  I absolutely love the course.  It is as hard as hell, but absolutley awesome.  The fairways have been narrowed, and forgot to ask him what he thought of the narrowing.  I spoke about how much I love the Dye Fore course and they commented about how they were there yesterday working on the new course and that it is coming along well.  The Ocean Course can be seen on the Golf Channel this week.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Where is Mike Vegis when you need him ?

Can't say anything until 10am...  Sorry.  

[Robert Kimball]

The Ocean Course can be seen on the Golf Channel this week.

When will it be on TGC? Just tonight on Golf Central?

It too is one of my favorite courses.

[Brent Hutto]

Rob,

The PGA Club Pro Championship will be shown more-or-less live at 4:00PM-6:30PM eastern time today on the Golf Channel. Same schedule on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Our own Mr. Deruntz will be teeing off about 2:20PM this afternoon so maybe the TV will catch a shot or a couple putts from his round.

I'll probably be down there spectating during their coverage this afternoon. If you see a tubby middle-aged guy in a lime green shirt and a Tilley hat waving at the camera that will be me  

[Mike_Cirba]

Great course and I'm glad to hear that The Ocean Course is getting some Major recognition.  I agree that it's a better course than Whistling Straits and if the wind kicks up, it will be a blast to watch.

[peter_mcknight]

Based on the USPGA's max-out philosophy used in their PGA Championship set-ups (Atlanta AC added 150 yards to 7213, Hazeltine added 210 yards to 7360, Oak Hill grew 235 yards to 7134, Whistling Straits grew at first 70 yards, then an additional 250 yards, before settling on a growth of 220 total from the original construction), Kiawah could end up with the following yardage set-up for 2012 easily--the tees already exist for such a purpose.  Also remember the course played at 7303 for the 1991 Ryder Cup.

400
540
390
480
200
480
565
180
495
3730 yards, par 36
440
575
480
465
225
470
580
210
470 (or perhaps an additional 20-30 will be found here)
3920 yards, par 36

7650 yards, par 72

[mikes1160]

Here's the announcement

http://www.pga.com/news/pganews/pgaofamericatournamentnews/kiawah_2012pga062305.cfm

Strange that Roger Warren (current PGA President/Director of Golf at Kiawah) is not mentioned in the release........

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Based on the USPGA's max-out philosophy used in their PGA Championship set-ups (Atlanta AC added 150 yards to 7213, Hazeltine added 210 yards to 7360, Oak Hill grew 235 yards to 7134, Whistling Straits grew at first 70 yards, then an additional 250 yards, before settling on a growth of 220 total from the original construction), Kiawah could end up with the following yardage set-up for 2012 easily--the tees already exist for such a purpose.  Also remember the course played at 7303 for the 1991 Ryder Cup.

400
540
390
480
200
480
565
180
495
3730 yards, par 36
440
575
480
465
225
470
580
210
470 (or perhaps an additional 20-30 will be found here)
3920 yards, par 36

7650 yards, par 72

From the middle of the back set of tees, The Ocean Course measures 7,937 yards (not that it was designed to ever be played from there -- it only gives numerous set-up options.

[peter_mcknight]

Mr Vegis...

Could you post the yardages for each hole from the 7937 tees--that would be great!  I don't believe that information is contained on the yardage book.

I only posted the yardages as a possibility of the card of the course for 2012 given the current proclivities of the USPGA in course set-up.  Further, I assumed none of the par 5s would be reduced to par 4s either, especially considering the USPGA didn't do that for Whistling Straits 16 last year and both courses were designed by the same guy.

Lastly, did I read correctly that you used to work for the most suave and socially appropriate Don Ritter??

[Matt_Ward]

Mike S:

It might be that the PGA didn't want to highlight the fact that Roger Warren is actually the Director of Golf at Kiawah.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Mike S:

It might be that the PGA didn't want to highlight the fact that Roger Warren is actually the Director of Golf at Kiawah.

We've been pitching this to the PGA since long before Roger got here.  I put together the original pitch book that went to both the PGA and the USGA back in late 2001 and early 2002.  Our former managing director, and the Chairman of the company that owns the resort has made numerous trips to the PGA over the past few years to lobby for this.  Plus, Roger did not have a vote in the matter as his current position prevented it...

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

With no desire to dampen the success of The Ocean Course in landing the PGA Championship ... it didn't hurt the facility in hiring Roger though -- right.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Mr Vegis...

Could you post the yardages for each hole from the 7937 tees--that would be great!  I don't believe that information is contained on the yardage book.

I only posted the yardages as a possibility of the card of the course for 2012 given the current proclivities of the USPGA in course set-up.  Further, I assumed none of the par 5s would be reduced to par 4s either, especially considering the USPGA didn't do that for Whistling Straits 16 last year and both courses were designed by the same guy.

Lastly, did I read correctly that you used to work for the most suave and socially appropriate Don Ritter??

Yes, I was Legislative Director to the mad scientist for 5 years, mostly working on what was then the Subcommitee on Telecommunications and Finance.

I don't have a rundown of the exact yardages but what I can do is give you approximate yardages from the caddie yardage books we have:

#1 -- 395 - Par 3
#2 -- 555 - Par 5
#3 -- 390 - Par 4
#4 -- 488 - Par 4
#5 -- 207 - Par 3
#6 -- 480 - Par 4
#7 -- 579 - Par 5
#8 -- 197 - par 3
#9 -- 502 - par 4
Front Nine: 3,793 Yards

#10 -- 439 - Par 4
#11 -- 576 - Par 5
#12 -- 466 - Par 4
#13 -- 481 - Par 4
#14 -- 219 - Par 3
#15 -- 466 - Par 4
#16 -- 605 - Par 5
#17 -- 221 - Par 3
#18 -- 477 - Par 4
Back Nine: 3,950

Total: 7,743.  Obviously, I'm reading the book right because the USGA measured it at 7,937 from the back tees.  Here's their slope/rating certification for the back tees:

Course rating 79.6.  Slope 155

Front nine: course rating-39.0. Slope-151
Back nine: course rating-40.6.  Slope-155

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Mike:

With no desire to dampen the success of The Ocean Course in landing the PGA Championship ... it didn't hurt the facility in hiring Roger though -- right.

I think we would have had a better shot at the Sahalee event had Roger not been here and I'm not sure if it helps at all in attracting USGA events...

[peter_mcknight]

Mr Vegis:

Thanks for the total max-out back marker yardage. Kind of frightening to know the shortest par 4 after the 3d is 439 yards.  At that point, there would be a decided advantage to starting the championship on Thursday on hole 1 rather than hole 10.

I volunteered for Ritter's last campaign in 1992.  By that point in time, he basically became a caricature of the incumbent he defeated in 1978, Fred Rooney.  His son, Jason, graudated high school (Solehi) the same year I did, 1989.  Richard Fenno from the University of Rochester would have had a field day with Ritter towards the end of his run in Congress.

At least the USPGA has two dummy runs coming up to test various set-ups and philosophies before 2012.  I suppose the CPC is the Amateur and the Senior USPGA is the Senior Open to the USPGA crowd.

Last question--how will the humidity and/or precipition affect the quality of the course in mid-August?

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

I helped run in last two winning campaigns, one against Reidman (I believe his name was) and one against McHale (to whom he eventually lost).  Funny...  He loses the first campaign I didn't help with...  Hmmmm.  Coincidence?

As for the heat and humidity, I grew up in Western Michigan.  I can remember 100+ degree days during the summer.  That's harder to play in than the weather here in the Charleston area.  It seldom gets into the mid-90s here, especially out on the Eastern end of the island where the sea breezes keep the temps down.  As for rain, look at the first third of the PGA Tour season.  That's comes with the territory.