Pace of Play

[rjsimper]

Did they really just play the final round of the US Open in 3 hours and 50 minutes???

[Joe Andriole]

I think that Goosen and Gore were "on the clock" much of the back nine.

[Dan_Callahan]

Tiger teed off at 2:30 and was being interviewed after his round at 6:30. Good stuff.

[tonyt]

They were playing in twoballs. PGA Tour rules on pace of play a clear, and a twoball taking around four hours in any event will find itself on the clock and remain so until they are back in place behind the group ahead.

[rgkeller]

They were playing in twoballs. PGA Tour rules on pace of play a clear, and a twoball taking around four hours in any event will find itself on the clock and remain so until they are back in place behind the group ahead.

The PGA had nothing to do with it. One thing that the USGA is good at is maintaining pace of play in big tournaments.

If this event was run by the PGA Tour, the players would have taken another hour.

[THuckaby2]

Is it just me, or is it sad that 3:50 is considered FAST for a two-ball consisting of great players with 65,000 people to mark where every single shot goes?

Good lord give me and Benham all those marshalls and we could finish in 2:30.

Of course we wouldn't be playing under US Open pressure.  

Still, the somewhat sad statement here to me is the play yesterday is seemingly being described as FAST.

TH

[Brent Hutto]

TomH,

Aren't you assuming that you and Benham would be taking something less than 80 strokes?

[THuckaby2]

 

Yeah, that's right, those hacks Goosen and Gore would be holding us up.

 

That does bring up another question though... what would us normal mortals shoot at Pinehurst #2 under yesterday's conditions?  That was a big discussion amongst the family group yesterday... I'm thinking if I play well I could get it in two digits - but I'd have to do well to do so.  Those greens and all those weird chips etc. would brutalize me, as would the bermuda rough.  

TH

[PThomas]

I for one would love just once to play a course like that the day after the tournament from the back tees - where I normally never venture --  just to see how hard it is

those guys really ARE good

[Wayne Freeman]

Tom-  when you think about the fact that if you hit your drive in the rough it's pretty much an automatic bogey, coupled with the fact that on a 475 yard par 4 we're going to be an average of 225 to 200  out and just wedging back to the fairways coupled with the fact that the pins were in ridiculous places, I think a single digit handicap player would have been ecstatic to break 90.

[THuckaby2]

Wayne:

I considered all of that, and as I said above, this single-digit handicap would be ecstatic to break 100.

 

And I still think I could get around in less than 3 hours assuming I had constant forecaddieing.

TH

[Mike Benham]

Good lord give me and Benham all those marshalls and we could finish in 2:30.

I concur and I would say that we could also do it with only 9 clubs in our bag.  For mere mortals, you don't need a lot of decision time  when you put it in that rough.

As my daughter innocently noted yesterday, why do they take so much time too miss a 30 footer?

[Mike_Golden]

C'mon, give these guys a break, they are playing for the Open Championship, not a $5 Nassau.  As much as I like fast play, there was nothing yesterday that seemed slow to me.

As a point of reference, I played #2 in April, 1999, about 6 weeks before the Open was played there.  I tried playing from the tips and gave up after 5 holes and wound up shooting over 90 with at least a couple of balls in pocket.  The greens are diabolical and were about the fastest I've even played.  One of my playing partners hit a greenside bunker shot on 12 that landed softly on the green short of the pin and wound up rolling into the bunker on the other side.  He then hit the identical  shot and saw it roll back into the original bunker.  Stuff like that can just wear you out and destroy your will to grind and I'm sure that many of the players reached that point yesterday.

I also played Pebble Beach 3 days after the 2000 Open, after the rough had been cut 2" and the greens probably a little slower than during the tournament.  Shot 83 but not from the back tees and that was after a brutal start (shotgun, first hole played was #9) of triple, triple, double.  The triple on 9 was after being in the left rough short of the green and trying to flop a shot out without swinging as hard as I possibly could-the ball went about 5 yards and dropped down into the fescue surrounding a bunker

You have a chance on these courses if you hit fairways at the expense of distance, if needed, otherwise, to paraphrase the great Bob Huntley, 'you're absolutely f***ed'

[THuckaby2]

Mike, I understand all that. I'm not saying these guys went slow - far from it.  I am just saying that it's a sad commentary when 3:50 is considered to be fast for a two-ball.  OBVIOUSLY playing those conditions under that kind or pressure does tend to make the game slow down.

In any case, well-said paraphrasing Mr. Huntley... for those who know him reading that with his voice in mind does tend to make one smile.

 

[Steve Lang]

 

who said 3:50 was fast?

don't forget it isn't flat there and was hot..

oh , and that RG's heartbeat govenor doesn't allow him to walk really fast..

[THuckaby2]

who said 3:50 was fast?

don't forget it isn't flat there and was hot..

oh , and that RG's heartbeat govenor doesn't allow him to walk really fast..

Steve - I guess you're right - no one has specifically said that... I just got that impression...

But good point re Goosen.  

[Mike_Golden]

Huck,

There's one more element about pace of play that it's difficult for a Californian to realize-the heat and humidity make it very difficult to actually play as fast as you would like.

I've had to adjust my walking speed in Pensacola significantly to accomodate the heat and humidity here, so much so that I doubt that an under 3 hour round would be feasible during the summer months.  If you play faster than that you run the risk of dehydration and fatigue (along with a shirt that is absoutely soaked and hands that find it difficult to hold on to the club).  And I'm talking about playing my home course, with much less elevation change than #2 and much less difficult.

[Brent Hutto]

When I returned from a week in Northern California back in April, the heat and humidity here in South Carolina took my breath away the next time I played golf. And we had a very, very cool and rainy Spring by our standards.

I'm in halfway decent shape for walking but in the summertime if the eighteeenth hole is uphill I will slow down whether I like it or not. They actually had very, very nice summer weather at Pinehurst this week. Temperatures were quite cool for the season and humidity was low. I still don't know how they dodged all the thunderstorms yesterday and got the tournament in uninterrupted.

[THuckaby2]

Well Mike, you are among the fastest if not THE fastest player I know.  If you say there are slowing factors, I bow and say yes sir, I believe you.  Brent's a South Carolinian so that adds to the "thank you sir, I did not know that" attitude I shall take re this.

 

But as Brent says, it didn't seem to be that hot nor humid at Pinehurst yesterday, right?

TH

[Mike_Golden]

Huck,

It's really hard for me to admit but a couple of times I've gone out for an early morning round and realized, after about 5 holes, I was playing too fast so had to slow down.  The other strange thing is that playing in the early morning, even though it's a little cooler, is quite uncomfortable because of the ground condensation evaporating and creating incredible humidity.

I guess this thread is officially highjacked now

Getting back on topic, I'm sure the pros could play a little faster if they didn't spend so much time looking over each putt from every imaginable angle.  Of course, they are such good putters they are probably entitled to look that carefully since they could actually make almost every putt they hit (unlike hackers such as myself).

[THuckaby2]

That must be strange re early mornings there - totally different from the CA pattern, obviously.

And great point re the putts.

TH

[Mike_Golden]

Huck,

Like totally, for sure  It's no fun getting to the 6th or 7th hole and having your hands so sweaty the driver slips out on every swing.  I've sort of resolved that by buying something called 'Dry Hands'(it's an alcohol based product that puts a thin film on your hands that lasts for an hour or so) but it's  kind of annoying to not want to play really early and avoid the hottest part of the day.

One more anecdote on slow play-about a month ago I got to the golf course at about 7 AM, and checked in at the same time a group of older 'gentlemen' also checked in.  I walked out to the 1st tee, I guess they rode out to the 10th tee, and  I caught them on 17-and then had to wait 10 minutes while they putted out and then wait forever on 18 until one of the maintenance people rode up to them and asked them to let me play through.  These guys were not only bad players but took at least 2 minutes before hitting a putt.

[Pete Buczkowski]

who said 3:50 was fast?

don't forget it isn't flat there and was hot..

oh , and that RG's heartbeat govenor doesn't allow him to walk really fast..

I don't agree with this at all...yesterday's high in Pinehurst was 79 and the course is relatively flat, with almost no walk from green to tee.  I've played a lot of courses in FL that are hillier than #2.

[THuckaby2]

Shivas:

We're not talking about four golfers playing on a tricky course that's packed wall-to-wall with 8 minute interval tee-times (KP I).  We're talking a single match playing with absolutely no waiting, and with forecaddies to spot every shot.

Yes, the former takes a long time.  Hell I was proud we got around in less than 5 hours at KPI.  Crowds have a way of slowing things down, far more than pre-shot routines.

The latter?  If you take over 3 you are seriously dawdling.

TH

 

[THuckaby2]

Shivas:

Lest we forget, the round that we had the first block of times didn't take 5 hours plus.  You and others remember it that way, and you and others are just plain wrong.  On Saturday of this event, we played at noon and THAT ROUND took forever.  The next day, with the first block, well hell at least my group (me, Josh Taylor, Todd Eckenrode) played in about 3:45.  I can't be responsible for others.

In any case, yes, pre-shot routines can slow things down - absolutely.  But that's not my point, which is that any self-respecting golfer can play a single match in 3 hours given a decent walking course and forecaddies (ie Pinehurst).

TH