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Ian Andrew

Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« on: June 18, 2005, 12:12:01 PM »
I will say up front that I have never been a fan of the Blue course at Royal Montreal. The architecture featured alternating greens, 45 degrees right followed by 45 degrees left all round long. After a while this became monotonus. Additionally, each one was usually set 6 feet above grade and guarded by two bunkers front and one bunker back. The pattern has some variation on theme, but not to often.

The club is in preparation for hosting the presidents cup and has brought in an architect to rebuild every green, tee and bunker on the course. They have picked up some additional yardage, but mainly kept the routing. The biggest change will be at 12 and 13 where a three and five will both be rebuilt to make better use of the land.

I have posted the front nine photos, since the back will be tackled this fall. I was so interested to find out what they have accomplished, since I was not a real fan of the origional course. See what you think.

Of note, there was a huge storm the days leading up to this and I was getting rained on while shooting photos. The photos are corrected, and the lacey edge bunkers on the 5th, are actually created by washouts. The bunker forms are simple and smooth lined.

The two Red Course photos are to supply context of what the architecture used to look like. Agin I have always found the Red far more charming than the Blue; but the bunkers were similar on both courses.

The first hole from about 200 out

The second from the left loking at the carry bunker on the corner

The par four third from the landing area

The par five fourth

The par 3 5th

The second shot on the short par five 6th

The 7th, par 3

Taken from the right of the landing on the 8th

The approach shot on 9

Picture of the green right beside on the red course for context of what the old style was like.

One of the par threes again for context.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2005, 12:13:30 PM by Ian Andrew »

Andrew Cunningham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2005, 01:58:31 PM »
When are they going to leave this course alone!  I liked the old Wilson bunkers better.  I especially liked watching Tiger struggle out there back in 1997.  Norman should have one that one too!

I agree with you Ian that the Red course was (is) probably just as good as the Blue, but as you mentioned it is significantly easier (haven'y played there in 5 years).  Didn't Graham Cooke make some other significant changes around 15 and 16 a few years back as well(on the Blue course)?

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2005, 02:54:56 PM »
For one of Canada's elite, traditional clubs, Royal Montreal can't leave its course alone. Is the point to make alterations for the President's Cup? What's the point to all of these changes? Was the membership unhappy?

 
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Keith Durrant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2005, 04:56:38 AM »
How architecturally important was the pre-1959 course? Have any pictures survived? Were the Dick Wilson courses in a different style and were they well-received when the move was made to the new site?

The club has hosted 9 Canadian Opens, 5 on the previous course and only 4 on the current one.

Ian Andrew

Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2005, 05:45:09 AM »
The course was signifigant, and Colt talked them out of moving in 1916 beause he thought the site was fine and the course was fine. Wilie Park Jr. came in rennovated the south course and added the north course, which was good enough to host 4 a couple of opens. The members liked the courses despite the criss crossing railroad tracks.

The moved because the courses were too short to hold an open (even though the membership still liked the courses; and there was pressure to move due to expansion of the airport and the busy nature surrounding the site.

Wilson's (Lee?) work is very well documented and photographed.

The work that took place seems to have more to do with getting USGA greens and improving playing conditions than it does about anything else. gain this is not from the horses mouth, but second hand from a friend.

The old 6th


The old 16th
« Last Edit: June 19, 2005, 05:45:25 AM by Ian Andrew »

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2005, 09:21:53 AM »
Ian,

How much length can they get out of the Blue? I suspect little more than 7,000 yards total yards. Which, as usual, will likely result in a set-up similar to the US Open for a match-play event. Boring.

I think the powers-that-be need to get a little more creative when selecting a site, and setting up courses for the President's and Ryder Cups.

AND, WHO'S OVERSEEING THE WORK CURRENTLY BEING DONE AT ROYAL MONTREAL, IAN?
jeffmingay.com

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2005, 05:07:48 PM »
It is a Rees Jones course now Jeff. No kiddin'.
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2005, 09:05:06 PM »
i almost fell asleep looking at those pics...i'll stick to MY montreal area golf club...it's better...here's a pic of the fun and beautiful par 5 2nd hole

the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Yannick Pilon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2005, 09:07:38 PM »
Matt,

What course is this?  It looks like an old style Cooke Course....

Ian,

Did you take a good look at the greens?  While I haven't yet seen the changes but will soon, I had the chance to see some of the pictures the club has posted on their website (sorry, limited access...) after the renos were completed last fall.  It looks like they have done some weird tiers on most of the greens.  But not nice flowing tiers... More like sharp drop offs that cross the greens in straight lines that look like they've been engineered... ???

The yardage they got out of some holes is also outrageous.  What you claim is the par 5 fourth is, in fact, the par four fourth, now close to 500 yards (unless they turned it into a par four... but somehow I doubt it.... It could actually be a birdie hole, and who would want that, right?)

Anyhow, still can't wait to actually see it in person.  God knows those ugly fairway bunkers badly needed some work!

By the way, what brings you to Montreal these days?
www.yannickpilongolf.com - Golf Course Architecture, Quebec, Canada

Ian Andrew

Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2005, 09:30:42 PM »
Matt,

Where is that picture of?


Yannic,

The fourth is really a par four. :P I always thought the course to be, if nothing else, very tough. Do they really need the yardage? I assume this is all about the President's Cup and future events.

I've worked on Laval-sur-le-lac (Green) and Elm Ridge for quite a few years.

Mike_Cirba

Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2005, 12:16:22 AM »
Ian,

Did a team of elephants chop up those fairways?

Seriously, the old pics you posted are worlds apart from the dull current ones.  What went wrong?

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2005, 04:37:22 AM »
Yannick and Ian,

This is Le Blainvillier. The second hole on the Heritage 18. The royal 18 is the stronger of the two. This is a Cooke course from 1991. As you can tell it really looks nothing like the overshaped Cooke courses of today. Le Blainvillier(36 holes) is the best Cooke course i've played. I think I read that he thinks it's his best quebec course.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2005, 08:30:12 AM »
Who (architect) is behind the renovation process ?


Chris_Clouser

Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2005, 09:24:35 AM »
Ian,

The course looks, well just ok.  Not great, not awful, but just right down the middle.  But no matter what the final form takes I would wager good money that you will hear the following quotes somewhere during the conversation the week of the President's Cup.

"This is a great old-style course."

"What a great change of pace from what we see every week on the tour."

"Another great restoration by Jones to get this course up to date for today's game."

"This is an excellent test that is both stern and fair to the golfer."

"What an excellent course for match play!"
« Last Edit: June 21, 2005, 09:25:53 AM by Chris_Clouser »

Jeremy_Glenn.

Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2005, 11:26:03 AM »
Rees Jones is doing the renovation works.  Bryce Swanson, of Rees Jones Inc., is the on-site guy.

As a member of this course, I really shouldn't comment on what I think of the work (too bad I can't make anonymous posts...).  The old Blue course, as Ian said, was quite boring.  A great test of executing shots, machine-like, but pretty bland nonetheless.  The back nine of the Blue had more interesting holes.  The back of the Red is still my favourite nine.

The Blue course, after the renovation, will become the apex of "Tough, but fair"  :P
« Last Edit: June 21, 2005, 11:26:56 AM by Jeremy Glenn. »

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Royal Montreal (Blue) major renovation pictures
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2005, 02:05:03 PM »
mike,
what went wrong is that the old pics are of a different golf course on a different site...the willie park version of royal montreal
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"