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Steve_ Shaffer

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Frank Thomas on the Ball...
« on: June 12, 2005, 02:01:55 PM »
Frank Thomas,technical director of the United States Golf Associationfrom 1974 to 2000, runs a company whose Web site, FranklyGolf.com, is a clearinghouse for information about equipment evaluation and research.

From today's NY Times(registration required):
www.nytimes.com/2005/06/12/sports/golf/12ball.ready.html?

"The ball is obviously the essence of the game of golf; everything revolves around where it starts, where it stands and where it finishes. Without it, we're just walking. And regulating its performance seems to be important if the game is going to be contested in a fair fashion..."
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Frank Thomas on the Ball...
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2005, 02:07:34 PM »
Historically speaking, this thread is totally mis-labelled.

Craig Sweet

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Re:Frank Thomas on the Ball...
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2005, 02:17:54 PM »
I think Frank Thomas has it right. Yes, the ball is PART of the problem. Yes, the large drivers are PART of the problem, and yes, the course SET UP is part of the problem.

Wasn't it the supt. at Congressional that said for the US Open they  prepared the fairways (mowed, aerified,etc) just like they prepared the greens not too many years before? How much more roll do you get on a fairway when you go from .50 in the late 70's early 80's to  .25 today?
LOCK HIM UP!!!

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Frank Thomas on the Ball...
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2005, 04:38:21 PM »
Steve,

Frank Thomas doesn't get it.

Remember, it was on his watch (1974-2000) when distance and shot dispersal (accuracy) got out of control.

His statement, "making the ball travel a shorter distance has the same effect as lengthening courses." is absurd.

It completely overlooks the cost to clubs for lengthening their golf courses and altering their architecture.  And, these costs are significant and repetitive in nature.

His headline sub-title, "Tougher Courses Could Help Restore the Game's Balance" is likewise absurd, especially when he never offers any suggestions on how to make them tougher, while maintaining the element of the fun of playing them.

His statement, referencing RTJ's work at Oakland Hills, "Creative course designers can make similar modifications to place a premium on accuracy in major championships, bringing golf back into a better balance." is likewise absurd.

Should we now have fairway widths at 10 yards ?
A mandate on where golfers HAVE to hit their shots ?
Do we now move all bunkers and architectural features to meet the challenge of 153 golfers in order to make the golf courses tougher ?

And, what happens to the golf course and all of the architectural features after those 153 guys leave ?

The game was fun for me when I was 15, 25, 35 and 45, all before high tech.  It was also fun for me last year when I couldn't hit a tee shot 200 yards.  Why do he and others think that he game won't be fun if we don't hit the ball as far as we do today ?   Distance isn't the inherent lure and value of the game.

Since I've heard that the real jump in distance is for those who have swing speeds in excess of 110 mph, why wouldn't changes to the ball impact those players the most ?

If the ball and equipment was good enough to generate the interest and play circa 1980 why wouldn't that ball and equipment generate the same interest today ?

I would agree that it's a dual problem, which is why I suggested a reduction in the size of drivers AND a rollback of the ball.

Craig Sweet

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Re:Frank Thomas on the Ball...
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2005, 05:58:18 PM »
Pat, when you were 15,25,35,45...what were the mowing heights of the fairways and greens?
LOCK HIM UP!!!

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Frank Thomas on the Ball...
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2005, 06:07:57 PM »
Pat, you said..

"Should we now have fairway widths at 10 yards ?
A mandate on where golfers HAVE to hit their shots ?
Do we now move all bunkers and architectural features to meet the challenge of 153 golfers in order to make the golf courses tougher ?

And, what happens to the golf course and all of the architectural features after those 153 guys leave ?"

In a post back at the time of the Masters I suggested they move THAT tournament elsewhere...somewhat tongue in cheek...however...NO ONE is forcing these clubs to hold these tournaments. In fact, they seem to fall all over themselves to host a tournament, and they surely like the money they make from the PGA/USGA...personally, I don't think a course should do a damn thing (in the way of modifications) to accomadate these 153 players for 4 days a year...

The difference in the conditioning of the course between 1980 and 2005 is worth 15-20 yards of roll.
LOCK HIM UP!!!

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Frank Thomas on the Ball...
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2005, 06:45:24 PM »
Craig,
Pat, when you were 15,25,35,45...what were the mowing heights of the fairways and greens?

Mowing heights have had a little effect on my distance.
Mowing heights can't be viewed in an isolated context.

When I was 15 irrigation systems were rudimentary at best.
Roll was a factor, then came automated dual line/head irrigation systems and the greening of golf courses.
Many golf courses were refered to as cemetaries since they were so green and wet.  Roll became less of a factor, as did fairway height.

I recall watching Moss Beecroft and other superior players at the North-South Amateur and concluding that I had to alter the trajectory of my tee shots if I was to compete at a higher level.  I needed to hit the ball farther, and hitting it higher would accomplish that.

At a club I've played at for over 50 years, certain drives require fixed carries over creeks, swales and hills.

Conditioning hasn't given me 15-20 yards of extra distance at my home course in the last 25 years, hi-tech has.

I'm carrying the ball farther today then I did at 15, 25, 35 and 45 and I'm not in anywhere near the condition I was at those ages.
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« Last Edit: June 12, 2005, 06:46:59 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

Tim_Weiman

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Re:Frank Thomas on the Ball...
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2005, 08:50:38 PM »
Pat Mucci,

Frank Thomas' comments weren't just absurd. They were frightening and embarrassing. He comes across as a man who has given very little thought to the entire issue.

Golfers want to play more not pay more.

Why people like Thomas opt for a solution to the technology issue that contributes nothing but raising the costs of playing the game is beyond me.
Tim Weiman

Mike_Cirba

Re:Frank Thomas on the Ball...
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2005, 09:29:25 AM »
Frank Thomas simply got "out engineered" (and out-spent) by the equipment companies, and didn't understand just how creative they could be.  Now, he seems to want to say it's not a problem, we just need to fix our courses that have been there for decades.

I don't think he's seeing the forest for the trees.

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