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Keith Durrant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Craigielaw
« on: June 07, 2005, 02:16:20 AM »
This is a new course built in East Lothian. Any opinions, how does it rate against the other courses in the area? Who designed it? The website doesnt give too much information on the history:

http://www.craigielawgolfclub.com/

lesueur

Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2005, 03:37:32 AM »
Donald Steele designed it.

James Edwards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2005, 09:12:50 AM »
Sorry to correct but Tom Mackenzie designed it. ;)
@EDI__ADI

Jonathan Davison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw New
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2005, 09:39:00 AM »
James, myself and a host of others had the pleasure of walking the course with Tom Mackenzie. It has some wonderful green designs, some say a bit tough.

James - where have you been? keep in touch.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 02:00:39 PM by Jonathan Davison »

lesueur

Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2005, 09:46:02 AM »
No need to apologize James - you're correct.

It is credited to Steele in most literature. Do you know the extent of his involvement, or was it all Mackenzie?

Jonathan Davison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2005, 12:13:53 PM »
Richard
I am sure the majority of design work is Mackenzie - I have a copy of the green design details which are all Tom's work.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2005, 12:25:21 PM »
Keith
drive straight past it, thru Aberlady and turn left.

Play Kilspindie.

Leave Kilspindie, turn left, Play Luffness, Gullane #'s 1,2, and 3.

Leave Gullane, turn left, play Muirfield.


Monotonous push-up greens, poor conditioning, boring layout, par 3 among some real estate, etc, etc...

QED.
FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Stuart Hallett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2005, 01:25:29 PM »
Martin,

You're being a little hard on Craigielaw. Some of the greens are wild, and one three tiered green makes you think of another guy called Mackenzie. Just for this, it's worth a visit.

There's also some nice rivetted bunkering, very artistic.

The only downfall is that East Lothian is full of golfing classics, hence your advice to drive straight past it.
Is that a fair comment ?

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2005, 01:27:04 PM »
Martin,

When I played next door I thought the greens looked exciting.  There is a lot of movement in them and I thought as Jonny mentioned that they might be extreme in some places.

Is that not the case?  When you say monotonous greens do you mean that they repeat themselves again or?

Brian
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Jonathan Davison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2005, 02:04:01 PM »
Brian
I don't think they repeat themselves, very tough but I could imagine some real fun playing on and around them.
I tend to agree with Stuart, it has some really interesting features.
The green details are wild.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2005, 02:49:50 PM »
Stuart,
I couldn't help escape the feeling when I was playing it, that I really, REALLY wanted to be somewhere else. We played the course 2 Ryder Cup weekends ago along with Haddington, Kilspindie and Turnhouse. I'd rather go back to ANY of them than to Craigielaw again.

Brian,
Agreed. The Greens LOOK exciting but play boring. I found myself playing the exact same 25 yard chip on almost every hole (mostly following a good shot on which simply rolled back off) which goes to prove that even Ross-a-likes ain't all that esp. when there's 18 of the damn things!).

Also, take a look at the routing on the website. BORING parallelism everywhere. (Admittedly, not a huge problem if there's something else which distinguishes the holes. There just wasn't...) I am having real difficulty remembering the place. Not a good sign, IMHO.

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Jonathan Davison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2005, 09:14:24 AM »
Martin
How does Craigielaw compare to other developments of similiar age and budget, ie St Andrews Bay etc.


James Edwards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2005, 10:00:28 AM »
Jonny,

(Im good my friend, thanks for asking - once everything calms down this end of England, Il be up for a game)

Stuart,
Welcome on board, its about time your extensive knowledge of Colt and your home course, of course, was shared with this bunch!

Im with Stuart and Jonny in many respects, but I can understand the point raised by Martin that the greens tend to be extremely severe considering the environment they are built in, i.e the wind!  Having to hit low borrring (as in low)shots (not boring!) into greens which are elevated with extreme run off areas which take the ball away from the surface is tough for any calibre of player!

We (Stuart, Jonny, myself and others)were fortunate enough to walk most of the course with Tom Mackenzie and he explained his ideas which was indeed fascinating, considering he is one of the finer architects Europe has to offer.

The bunkering is a mix of traditional (revetted) with his own style of keeping the sand low, but bringing the banks well into the bunker. Cool if you have a greenkeeping team of more than 3.  This creates large, dark, shadow like formations in the fairway - imposing to most!  Could be aligned to some of the bunkering on Gleneagles Queens.
@EDI__ADI

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2005, 12:39:41 PM »
Martin
How does Craigielaw compare to other developments of similiar age and budget, ie St Andrews Bay etc.



Jonny, good Question,
I'd have to say that Craigielaw is probably better than St Andrews Bay, although that may be simply a matter of the context and company St A Bay finds itself in...

Interestingly, as the Hotel will soon be betwixt (probably) two of Scotland's finest Golf Courses (assuming Mr Kidd's work will be as exceptional as Mr Phillips) perhaps it will only be a matter of time before St A Bay 're-models'. I certainly gather there are already moves afoot on a certain other unloved St A course...

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2005, 12:51:12 PM »
Thankful for this thread, since the routing includes a shadow routing of Kilspindie which I needed to jog my memory.  Kilspindie has a special place in my heart.  I pulled out the club history last night and was surprised that it did not cite the original architect, noting only that Willie Park did subsequent work and that further changes were made at the recommendation of James Braid.  

Nice profile by Ran under Courses By Country.


 :)
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

ForkaB

Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2005, 04:00:23 PM »
Martin
How does Craigielaw compare to other developments of similiar age and budget, ie St Andrews Bay etc.



I certainly gather there are already moves afoot on a certain other unloved St A course...

FBD.

So who did Herb Kohler hire to remodel the Dukes Course, Martin.  Would Pete Dye lower himself to a non-links course in St. Andrews.......

Of course, I may just be talking pish...... :o

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2005, 12:17:58 PM »

So who did Herb Kohler hire to remodel the Dukes Course, Martin.  Would Pete Dye lower himself to a non-links course in St. Andrews.......

Of course, I may just be talking pish...... :o

Quite correct, Mr G.
Mr Kohler has indeed not engaged the services of Mr Dye. I assume he must have read my thread of some time ago about 'Whistling Dukes' and, for once, paid attention to a rambling Scotsman.
If you don't mind, I'd rather not disclose the name of said archie. He does frequent this place, and it'd be much nicer for he to out himself....might actually be a fun game for a while to play' Guess the Archie'!

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2005, 03:40:33 PM »
Well, Martin I will have a stab at it.  Pete Dye probably turned the job down....and then recommended Mr D...an old protege of Mr Dye...

Brian
« Last Edit: June 10, 2005, 03:41:19 PM by Brian Phillips »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Craigielaw
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2005, 10:23:20 AM »
Quite wrong, Mr Phillips.

Next...

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

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