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Jeff_Stettner

Golf... Worldwide Perception
« on: June 02, 2005, 10:47:59 AM »
The recent Golf Digest world rankings of 185 countries and a project that I am working on at my summer job have me wondering how golf is perceived around the world. There has been a lot of talk about Tiger Woods international impact and the broadening of the game into new regions. There are now 61 golf courses in the Czech Republic, for example.

How is the game perceived by the general populations in these places? Europe (other than the U.K.)? Asia? In China, there are 230 golf courses. I wonder, who plays there? Only the rich?

Has golf really become global? Or, is all this worldwide development simply a place for current golfers to play while in other countries? Do residents appreciate the economic factors that come from golf development or resent it? Neither...


RJ_Daley

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2005, 11:02:41 AM »
Jeff, I know Russell Talley and certainly Brett Mogg have some insights into your questions.  I often ponder the same things you have asked.  I am of the opinion that people in my ancestoral part of Italy would really take up the game, if it were available to them.  But, it seems to me, unavailability of land in large enough parcels, and cost plus super red tape obstacles are factors that would not be conducive to providing affordable golf in mid-south Italy.  I'm guessing much of Europe has that set of problems.  Thus, what little golf there is, seems to me to be a rich man's game, not a popular one.  I wonder if we are running out of land so badly, that the future great courses will all tend to be 'lands end' sort of locations.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2005, 11:03:04 AM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jeff_Stettner

Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2005, 11:09:57 AM »
Dr. Daley,
Those are exactly the folks I would like to hear from. It's hard to postulate on this stuff from affar...

Tim_Weiman

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2005, 01:37:30 PM »
Dick Daley,

Golf may still be viewed as a "rich man's sport", but I recall that wasn't my experience during my first trips to Ireland in the 1980's.

The guys at Ballybunion certainly weren't "rich"........but they did challenge me to think about what "wealth" really meant.

Just being able to go out in the evening any time and play a few holes at Ballybunion was such a joy.......a kind of wealth I didn't have back home in the States.
Tim Weiman

Rick Baril

Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2005, 02:58:57 PM »
Jeff,
I will try to answer some of your questions, based on my limited experience, observations and opinion:

First, there are great differences between the European countries – this also holds true for golf.

However, there are some similarities:  Land is expensive.  The “green party” is all-powerful.  Golf participation rates are very low < 1% (compared to 10% U.S. for example).  

Italy – definitely a wealthy mans sport.  Mr. Daley is correct in his observations, land and environmental restrictions, as well as a general “socialist” climate, limit the pursuit of golf.  (It could also be there is plenty of great food, great wine and great other things – which make golf seem less fascinating.)  I would say the general population resents golf. (Not to be considered the norm but we are under construction on a golf course that initially proposed in 1963.)

France – golf was “in style” 15 years ago.  A few hundred courses were built and it was believed that golf would be the answer for all that languishing agriculture land.  (different from Italy, France was willing to convert land to golf) Golf’s popularity was short lived – the French discovered it was impossible to play 9 holes take a 3 hour lunch break, play the final 9 holes – AND make a golf course profitable.  I believe France is slowly building a more stalwart army of linksters today.  And, this golf boom provided the core golfers with a substantial inventory of new venues.  General population resents golf.

Spain - for me – two different markets, 1) the tourist areas and 2) nationals.  #1 mostly means West, South and the islands.  Land is expensive, permits are difficult and water is a big hurdle.  #2 means golf courses for nationals.  In Spain this means established, socially prominent clubs.  Memberships can number in the thousands, with a large portion being social memberships.  This means the annual dues are relatively low - which also means a new club has trouble competing – price wise.  My impression is Spain (and Portugal) is a much more “mature” golf market – probably thanks to the Brits vacationing here.  General population accepts golf.

Germany – forget it!  Golfers are viewed as environmental terrorists.

Easter block countries seem to be dabbling in golf.  I believe this is mostly aimed at increasing tourism.

I believe there was (and maybe still is) a "Tiger factor", which brought golf to the attention of a younger generation, on an international level.  I don't think the same "focus" exists today.  But, I believe golf will continue to benefit from the intense media blitz related to Tiger.  

Again, these are my opinions.  Meaning; from a U.S. perspective, which will never accurately comprehend the European reality.  


Jari Rasinkangas

Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2005, 09:15:44 AM »
Jeff,

Some info from Scandinavia:

Here in Finland we have about 105 000 players that is 2 % of the population and more players are coming in all the time.  We have 110 courses and we need new ones desperately.  It is one of the fastest growing sports in Finland.

The first golf course in Finland was founded in 1932 and the second one in 1950's.  After that we slowly got new courses until in 1980's we got the first big boom.  During the 1990's golf was accepted more by the general public as a common hobby.  

The Finnish golf has been mainly a club player sport but we are getting now more resort courses.  The pay and play type golf is very rare here.  Only a few small courses for it.  The land is expensive in big cities where most of the players are so that makes it difficult to have new courses where the need is the biggest.  We have had some trouble with the environmentalists but not very much.

In Sweden golf is a big sport.  They have more than 550 000 players (6%) and 430 courses.  Norway has 122 000 (3%) players and 155 courses.  Denmark has 130 000 players (2.5%) and 148 courses.

In Scandinavia golf has become a family sport.  New players are coming from all age groups and also women are getting more interested in it.

See the web pages of European Golf Association for more info about European golf.  In "Member Federations" section you can find info about players and courses in each member country.

http://www.ega-golf.ch

Jari

Kyle Harris

Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2005, 09:25:17 AM »
Jari,

I was under the impression that golf in Sweden was somewhat nationalized in the school system and that you actually needed a license to play the courses.

Can you shed some light on that at all?

Thanks a bunch.

Jari Rasinkangas

Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2005, 10:11:35 AM »
Kyle,

No, golf is not nationalized in Sweden.  :)

The license part is true.  In Sweden and also in Finland every new player needs to have a Green Card to play on courses.  Green Card is a test for new players where you have a test for putting, chipping, bunker shots and long game.  You also have to pass a test where you are asked about simple rules and etiquette.

IMO it is good to have Green Card test.  You have to have some basic understanding how behave on the course.  Play will be faster and more safe.

Jari

Kyle Harris

Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2005, 10:13:45 AM »
Yes, I was quite happy to hear that, and there seems to be a willingness to get people a "Green card" as well. Don't get a lot of that here in the US unfortunately.

Maybe nationalized was a poor choice of words, but isn't golf a major part of the High School Physical Education curriculum? I always thought that's where Jesper, Annika and gang got there start...

Jeff_Stettner

Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2005, 10:16:11 AM »
Jari,
Having lived in Denmark for a wonderful semester of college, I feel as if I have some sense of the Skandinavian culture. Does the regions prediliction toward socialism and environmental sensitivity contradict the growth of golf? Can golf become attaintable to the majority of the population?

Jari Rasinkangas

Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2005, 10:54:27 AM »
Kyle,

I don't think that everybody has to play golf in high school in Sweden but they have many sports oriented high schools there where you can have special training in golf.  They also have very efficient junior programs in every golf club where local pros and volunteers teach kids for nothing.

Jeff,

I guess many Americans understand Scandinavian socialism in a wrong way.  The socialist parties are very close to many right wing parties nowadays.  E.g. many Finnish socialist party parliament members play golf and are members in expensive golf clubs.

The environmental issues are of course important but we have so much open space here that it does not prevent building new courses.  Every Finnish golf club also has to follow the environmental rules made by Finnish Golf Association in their maintenence routines.

The majority of the population can play golf already.  There are of course expensive clubs but also very cheap ones.  Also in many clubs juniors and students can play with low prices.

One indication about golf becoming a common sport in Finland is that you can buy golf equipment in nearly every department store or even in discount stores.  That was not possible five years ago.

Jari

David_Tepper

  • Total Karma: 2
Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2005, 05:14:19 PM »
Jeff -

You may not have seen my prior post regarding Europeans qualifying for match play in the British Amateur, but I did note that 19 of the 75 or so players who qualified for match play (low 64 & ties) were from Scandinavia or continental Europe. The medalist was from Denmark. The other 18 qualifiers came from France, Portugal, Iceland, Spain, Germany, Swizerland, Italy & Sweden.

Clearly the level of play is increasing on the continent.

DT

Steve Okula

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2005, 05:30:05 PM »
I've been a GCS in Spain, Portugal, and now France, and I will vouch that Rick Baril's take on European golf is as accurate as it is concise.

The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2005, 07:47:29 PM »
Jeff- While it is a tangent on your main question, I find it fascinating how golfers are perceived here in the U.S on Television Commercials. HAs anyone else noticed how dweeby they always seem to be portrayed? Forget about caddies, they get the biggest brunt from some of the 5th avenue marketing and advertising firms.

Since about 96' golfers, universally, have been perceived as nothing but deep pockets.

Matt_Sullivan

Re:Golf... Worldwide Perception
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2005, 09:44:00 PM »
Living in Beijing, I can give some feedback on golf in China

-- it is a very new sport: less than 20 years of history here

-- it is very much perceived as a rich man's sport. Memberships are very expensive: an average course in Beijing costs US$50 or 60k to join

-- a lot of the members of golf clubs in China are foreigners, Japanese and Korean especially, with plenty of Hong Kongers in the South. Local Chinese members are mostly successful businessmen in their 40s and 50s.

-- as a consequence of the above, the standard of play is fairly low, as most people are picking up the game later in life when they can afford it

-- golf is something of a political hot potato at the moment. The central govt has put a hold on the development of new courses over concerns that new golf course developments are using up arable land and depleting water supply. Not sure when this will be lifted. Some govt departments have also forbidden senior bureaucrats from playing golf with business men for fear of corruption

-- Awareness of golf amongst the general populace (even in the burgeoning middle class) is low. Not one of my 40 or so local employees plays or takes much interest in the game. The recent Johnnie Wlaker Classic was covered much more extensively in the HK media than the local media. No one in my office in Beijing knew it was on.

-- Having said that, there is a growing recognition that learning golf is important for business purposes, and two young men in my office are considering taking lessons just for this reason. Golf is beginnig to be seen as an important business skill. And also it has a little bit of the "Louis Vuitton" effect: "if I play golf I must be rich and successful" kind of thing.

-- Despite all of this, Tiger is a star. Most people in my office have heard of him. He is the only golfer most people know. Adam Scott is also getting popular -- viewed as movie star handsome (and wearing Burberry and winning the JWC also helps). Vijay, Sergio, Ernie etc have pretty much no recognition outside of local golfers

-- Long term? Not sure if or when the game will break through into the middle class and really gain traction as a local sport. But it will take decades (2020? 2030?) I think if it ever happens. But even as a minor sport in a country of 1.3BN people it could have a major impact on world golf
Matt