Doak Does Desert Golf - Stone Eagle

[A_Clay_Man]

Like no one else!!!

Has anyone ever seen desert golf before?

Up until John Fitzpatrick gave me a tour of Stone Eagle in Palm Desert California, I would've thought I had. From The Boulders, many many moons ago, to the rercent raters retreat in Scottsdale, I was under the misguided impression that I knew what a desert golf course looked liked. I was wrong.

Aside from Desert Forest, there is no other desert golf course I've seen that utilizes the natural, and fits into it, the way Stone Eagle does. Using both gaping chasms of death, lined with rocks naturally coated with their own sunscreen, Stone Eagle is sure to take the desert by storm similar to the way Pac Dunes has thrilled the ocean side resort crowd. Views of the Coachella Valley are rarely seen from this height. With the eleventh tee being the lookout over many of the courses Stone Eagle is sure to put to shame.

Memberships are less than 200k with National ones closer to 120k.

I'm expecting some newer pictures and will post haste with upon arrival. For now, I'll borrow one of Tommy's.

[moth]

Stunning.

And those bunkers are hardly likely to wash out there - whats the annual rainfall?? Anywhere else (and not on a pure sandy site) bunkers like that would be a real problem.

I guess revegetation of those rocky fills and cuts will be key to whether this golf course ends up looking as natural as Pacific dunes etc.

[John Kirk]

I've also seen Stone Eagle, though not since January.  The picture shows the short par-4 sixth hole, which I feel is the most remote, wild, and unusual hole on the course.

What I'm really looking forward to are the holes in the middle of the course, where two or even three fairways are connected together, with no native areas inbetween.  I believe these giant green playing fields will most separate Stone Eagle from the other desert designs.

[John Kirk]

Also, Adam...

When did you visit?  Was grass growing yet?

I'm really looking forward to any more pictures you may receive.

Thanks,

John

[moth]

John,

Is there a restriction on the amount of turf coverage for this course?? I have heard that there are restrictions in Arizona and Las Vegas??

[Ari Techner]

Thanks for the pics, would love to see more.  


When does it open?  

[Mark_Fine]

Ever play Apache Stronghold?  I think that one was built in the desert  

[John Kirk]

There is a restriction on turf.  I believe it is 95 acres in this case.  From my recollection, many of the holes have very generous landing areas.

[A_Clay_Man]

When did you visit?  Was grass growing yet?

John- I was just there and they have started to grow some rough grass on some of the steeper slopes.

When does it open?

Not sure, but I'd guess late this year or early next. Checkout www.stoneeagleclub.com

Ever play Apache Stronghold? I think that one was built in the desert

Mark, I went from AS to Stone Eagle. Hard to believe any entitiy could ruin a place as fast as the tribe has, at AS. It looked like a neglected 75 yr. old muni. While the greensites are still viable and will suffice, the golf is not on same level as Stone Eagle will show. There wasn't one hazard at AS that screamed "stay away" the way the gapping chasm of hell does.

[cary lichtenstein]

Aren't both Black Mesa and Wolf Creek desert golf?

[henrye]

While this seem obvious to many here, I would really like Doak's or another archy's take on the bunkers here.  Not so much the style, but why are they located where they are?  Is it simply for visual effect?  Are they placed there to catch a poorly struck ball and save a poor golfer from losing his ball in the desert/"chasm"?  Strategically, it seems to me that the hole doesn't need bunkers, if the notion of bunkers is to be penal.

[Matt_Ward]

redanman:

You need to play a few of the "other" desert courses you must have either skipped or failed to play.

There are a number of unique examples that go far beyond the limited meaning you've applied to desert golf.

You can try Outlaw at Desert Mountain as one clear example. We-Ko-Pa is another that comes quickly to mind. Ditto the likes of the Firecliff Course at Desert Willow in Palm Desert, CA.


Cary:

Yes, Wolf Creek and Black Mesa are examples of desert courses although BM is more aptly described as high desert terrain as opposed to what you see in Palm Springs and the Phoenix neighborhood.

[A_Clay_Man]

Cary, While BM is in the desert SW, I wouldn't say it comes off as a desert course so much as It hugs it's land and is great fun with inspired putting surfaces. Maybe it's the bunker shapes or the predominace of the extention of fairway grasses from tee(landing area) to green?  I also golfed WC this trip and it was obvious as the balls on a tall dog that it is not in the same league as the course Doak has built in Palm Desert. The ridiculous scoop outs everywhere were the most glaring examples of not fitting-in to the natural environs. The golf was fun and I had a great time, but as JC said on another thread about WC, it really should not enter into a serious gca discussion.

What strikes me as the biggest plus at Stone Eagle, will likely be the intimacy created. Opposed to AS where most of holes are separated into different corridors.

[Kirk Gill]

Here are some comments by Tom Doak on the bunkering from a previous thread on the subject. I hope that Mr. Doak won't mind:

"...over there on the right, part of that bunker you see is cut through the profile of the knobby hill which the hole doglegs around, while the upper part of the "bunker" is actually a greenside bunker about 75 yards further on!"

and:

"The carry straight to the green is about 310 yards from the back tee, I believe, but it's extremely risky -- the land past that knob falls away VERY sharply to the right.  If you tried to carry to the green and didn't get to the greenside bunker you might not be able to get a club on your next shot ... the only way to drive the green is to start it out a little to the left and steer it up the approach.

Most everyone will play safely left.  Some will want to drive it way up by that bunker through the fairway, so they're almost level with the green and can see the putting surface, but it's a very narrow target from there.  Others will want to hug the inside corner so they can play more into the bank on the left of the green, and away from the drop-off on the right.  Most will be glad just to keep it on grass for tee shot and approach!"

And finally:

"Those bunkers on the right aren't just there for eye candy ... they will stop a lot of weak slices from getting to the "rough", which consists mostly of rock.  It would be a truly frightening shot to be in one of them, but still better than hitting three from the tee!"

Again, my apologies to Mr. Doak for copying and pasting his comments.

[henrye]

Interesting.  So the bunkers "in play" off the tee are there to save a shot, which is either hit poorly or which has simply been too demanding for the player.  I have noticed this feature on a number of photos of Doak courses and was wondering what others thought of these "saving" bunkers.  He is clearly one of the most popular archy's on this board and based on the photos I've seen, he makes regular use of these bunkers.

[A_Clay_Man]

Henry, I've seen many a containment bunker in my day and none of them ever looked like this one. The fact that it's on a direct line to the hole makes me appreciate it as a proper form of visual intimidation. Especially since it fits so well into it's environs (actually is the environs)

[Steve Lang]

 

Why do they even need bunkers on that hole?  Nothing natural about it!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

For those who have been waiting to make a decision on membership, this is to advise that there will be an increase in the membership deposit effective July 1, 2005.

[henrye]

I think Steve lang makes a good point.  While the bunkers look craggy and wild, do others think they blend in well?  Doak says that they're not "eye candy", but I'm not sure I see the value in them as containment bunkers.  For the majority of guys who end up in those bunkers off the tee by way of a slice, are they really better off hitting out of those bunkers than re-hitting 3 off the tee?

[A_Clay_Man]

Henry, Perhaps we should wait until the hole is completed before we judge the usefulness of this bunker. I speculate that a shot that just carries this bunker, will be rewarded with a decent, middle of the fairway, shot in, and will avoid the bunker long. Especially downwind or on firm turf. Which now makes this bunker much more than just some containment, it provides an element of strategy for those looking for options other than the 'go for it' rip.

Here's a pre construction pic of the prop. More recent pix to follow later this week.

[A_Clay_Man]

As promised, here are some recent pix.

While still in grow-in, I hope the specialness is captured.



And now for the much anticpated, highly controversial?



More will follow.

[A_Clay_Man]

[Michael Dugger]

Well,

Based on those two pictures it seems the bunker styling has sort of been established.

To my eye it looks quite unique.  Geez, a lot of angles and scruf in those bunkers.  It's pretty cool I think.

If creating something that is new and fresh is the goal of Renaissance, I'd say they are succeeding.  

Doesn't look like any desert course I've ever seen before

[A_Clay_Man]

Michael, Not all of the bunkers have that same exact look, which I think is the point. Mimicing the randomness found in nature.

[A_Clay_Man]

That's a green with sand on it.

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