much ado about Monty....

[PThomas]

Geoff Shackelford's website has some new items about the incident at the Indonesian Open, including a suggestion that a committee be formed to further investigate

did he cheat? did he do it on purpose?  should he be suspended?  love to hear your thoughts

[ForkaB]

It's a big story over here (UK) which doesn't seem to want to go away, even though the European Tour (and Monty) very much wishes it would!  My read is that the players are REALLY pissed off, since it was such an egregious breach of the rules, and one that would have been very hard for Monty to justify except due to extreme stupidity or prevarication (and Monty ain't stupid).

At the time Monty was desperately trying to get ranking points to qualify for the Masters, and the points he got in Indonesia (while not helping him in that quest) did just recently allow him to sneak into the US Open without having to go through qualifying.  Whoever now lies #51 on the OWGR list has the right to be extremely irked.

The whole episode reeks of narcissism.

[Bill Gayne]

Paul Casey is the 51st player left out of the US Open. FWIW, I think Paul Casey is very good young pro that I would rather see in Pinehurst then Monty.

[rgkeller]

Montgomerie cheated.

He planned to cheat, did cheat and then lied about his cheating.

Such a shame about Paul Casey. His many, many American fans bleed for him.

[ForkaB]

Such a shame about Paul Casey. His many, many American fans bleed for him.

And who says that Americans don't do irony.........

[S. Huffstutler]

What is Geoff's website? How's about a link?

steve

[PThomas]

geoffshackelford.com

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Though he played his shot from the wrong spot, it is not a big deal.  A weather delay is almost always a godsend to a player insome sort of trouble.  A ball in hand is always a ball that will end up with a good lie--unless the player is brain dead!  Obviously, his mark was washed away, so there was no chance that the exact spot could be relocated.  His playing partners did not make a big stink, so they were not bothered by a change in his ball position.  I am confident that they would have been very perturbed if they thought he was gaining an advantage.  There is nothing more irritating than a player compromising the integrity of the field.  

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

As I recall, a couple of years ago, a pga tour player was able to hit an "unreachable" par 5 from the rough after a weather delay.  There was a lot of crying about the shot, but it was absolutely legal.  The rain had matted the rough down, and the player essentially ended up being able to tee the ball up in the rough.  As always the case in such a situation,there were probably a few other shots from the rough that no one saw on TV, but were equally beneficial to the player

[ForkaB]

Robert

With all due respect, Monty did not make a minor (and probably legal, if murky) improvement in the character of his lie he made a major (and definitely illegal) improvement in the position of the lie itself, which significantly affected his STANCE!

Pre-rain delay he was unable to find a comfortable stance as his ball was so close to a bunker.  Apres-rain delay his ball was placed so much further away from the bunker that he had a normal and comfortable stance.

Please do not try to tell us that a professional such as Monty, with so much on the line, would not have known EXACTLY where his ball was in relation to the bunker, nor that he would not have spent a lot of time over the night thinking about how he was going to take a stance and play that shot once play had resumed the next day?

Monty knew exactly what he was doing, even if he might have repressed that knowledge to suit his purposes(narcissism).

He cheated, and should have "returned" his ranking points as well as his prize money.

[Jack_Marr]

I don't know for sure if Monty cheated intentionally. Maybe he did. The issue being reported on this side of the pond is the ruling of the officials.

There is also doubt over Evans' claim that 98% of players agree with him.

anyway, I like both Evans and Monty. I wonder will this affect any hope he has of captaining the Ryder Cup at some stage.

[Mike_Clayton]

Jack

 I'd be willing to bet the only doubt about Evans' 98% is that it' too low a number.

[Philip Gawith]

Rich - I thought narcissism meant having a "morbid, self interest"?

Not sure that explains Monty's conduct here - though I suppose you might claim that he is congenitally morbid and, in this case, definitely self-interested.

[Sébastien Dhaussy]

Paul Casey is the 51st player left out of the US Open. FWIW, I think Paul Casey is very good young pro that I would rather see in Pinehurst then Monty.

Giving his current level of play, I hope you can watch the US Open thursday or friday. Saturday, it will be too late to see Paul Casey  

[ForkaB]

Philip

My "psychotherapy" practice is at the organisational level so I don't often venture into the mysteries of the individual human mind, but......

....one of my very close friends is in the middle of trying to extricate herself from a long term relationship with a diagnosed "narcissist", so I looked up the definition, and BINGO!, it's MONTY!

[Sébastien Dhaussy]

anyway, I like both Evans and Monty. I wonder will this affect any hope he has of captaining the Ryder Cup at some stage.

Same chances as Tom Lehman after Brookline  
Sorry, US fans, it was too easy   It was just for the "good word", I like Tom Lehman.

[John_Cullum]

It smells pretty bad for Monty, whom I have always liked. I think his ryder Cup captaincy is seriously in jeopardy.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

This has grown into a huge controversy, but the second most important member of the group has not raised any objections to Monty's replaced ball--the marker of his card.  Supposedly he was off by 18 inches--a distance that certainly can change a dead lie into a viable recovery situation.  However, we do not know how penal the bunker was and how much he stood to gain by the improperly played shot.  Again, the members of his group, especially the marker of the card never raised objections and continue to side with Monty.  Perhaps Monty was trying to gain an edge, but it is only fair to give him the benefit of the doubt--even if he is someone who makes it very difficult to like.

[Forrest Richardson]

I have no opinion on Colin's recent trouble.

When Desmond Muirhead was asked to work with Monty in Dubai he agreed, offering the pro two options: (1) put your name on the course as a player only...don't even have to show up — or (2) work with me and learn something...be listed as a player/consultant.

Monty chose (2).

But...he never showed up! Muirhead became furious when he read a London newspaper's account of Monty talking about the course. In pure Muirhead fashion, Desmond sent off a few faxes to writers in London and a scandal was uncovered! There are accounts of whether Monty designed Dubai or not...of course, he had nothing to do with it at all.

[Jerry Kluger]

I am not a big Monty fan but as I understand it, the 66 which he shot in the final round of the BMW is what earned him the spot although the other incident did put him in position, he did shoot a great final round in order to get in.  I am still willing to bet that he will not be a factor in Pinehurst and niether would Paul Casey.  

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