Metedeconk and Hidden Creek-

[NAF]

Pat-

Alpine is swimming in some cash though.. We just refurbished the 19th hole (is beautiful) and the new $20 million clubhouse that will look like Winged Foot's starts construction this fall.. They took in 10 people off the waiting list recently at $100-125k  a pop!  And what does all this do? Price me out of the club despite being involved in the restoration etc.  A while back some members thought about converting ACC into a golfclub only and selling the clubhouse at the bottom to become a catering hall.  Never happened of course.  I expect the cost of ACC to go up by $2k a year with the new clubhouse..

Jeff (G-wazo), hope you didnt have a perforated appendix.. Mine burst in 1991 during a final exam at Lehigh.. Went into septic shock, almost died, 12 inch scar, 4.5 hour surgery where they phoned my parents telling them I might not make it (they were not there b/c emergency surgery) and 3 weeks in the hospital certainly changed my view on life.. I went from 145lbs to 105lbs too. Thankfully, being only 20 at the time meant quick healing..  IMHO, only Friars Head has a better practice facility.

Wayne-- Ran did a lot better after that first shot.. Besides the clubhouse has been hit by the Luftwaffe and is still standing!  David was amazed by the maestro's prodigious length on his drives with inferior technology.

[George Pazin]

Hooray for Baby Freeman. One word of advice: my little man came 5 1/2 weeks early, so start getting ready now! A life changing experience like no other....

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the reverse camber fairways at Metedeconk.

What Jeff seemed most disappointed with, for lack of a better way of putting it, was the Metedeconk was strictly penal - stray from the intended line of play and you will pay dearly.

[Geoffrey Childs]

NAF,

First of all, playing with two or more lefties in a foursome is grounds for calling your sanity into question, especially with those two..

Pat thanks so much. I believe that Mike and I have played with you in the same foresome in the past.  I guess what they are saying about your sanity is true then  

Viewing Shinnecock in the context that play of the golf course, by it's members,  is equivalent to the play of the golf course on the last two rounds of the US Open is absurd.
I played Shinnecock the summer/fall before the last Open.  The setup was so crazy the members had a local rule that should you lose a ball in the primary rough you could drop one near where you feel it was lost and wedge out- NO PENALTY- They were not playing golf for an entire year. I hit what I thought to be a great drive down the left side of #3 and we had a forecaddie yet the ball was lost just off the fairway a few yards.  I turned down another round in the spring before the Open. Tony Pioppi and I were there late last October and Mark Marchand had cut the rough to the bunker lines so balls could run into them.  I had so much fun playing that same course. Setup is everything and Shinnecock was setup for a year under USGA directions such that the members could not play by the rules of golf!

[Matt_Ward]

Metedeconk is a very penal course -- especially off the tee and frowns upon anything that deviates from the preferred line of attack.

I do believe the 1st & 3rd nines are the two best combos and the 9th hole on the 3rd nine is one of the best and most demanding par-4's you can play in all of Jersey.

Metedeconk may not possess the "look / flavor" that others crave from Hidden Creek. The styles and nature of the respective courses are completely different. Metedeconk places a great deal of emphasis on the driver -- both from the standpoint of length and accuracy. In many ways Roger Rulewich has mimicked the results of the man whose name is credited with the course -- Robert Trent Jones. The easy bogey and hard par motif.

Hidden Creek provides for greater width and the "playability" issue is clearly present. In addition, the detailing of the bunkers and putting surface are well done but to be fair they are also at a high level at Metedeconk.

In my mind -- both courses represent certain clear styles. I don't favor either of them in its totality but I can see how those enamored with certain attributes -- course width, well crafted bunkers & greens, the absence of bordering trees and dense rough -- would prefer the C&C creation.

If I were to name a course that fits the mold perfectly between what you see with Metedeconk and Hidden Creek I would select Plainfield.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Geoff Childs,

I was well on my way to recovery when I played with Moriarty and Shackelford, which caused a relapse.

I'm almost fully recovered.

Shinnecock doesn't play for the members as it did for the last two days of the US OPEN.  Everyone understands the conditions of the golf course due to pre-tournament preparation, and post tournament recovery.
Day in and day out, it's a far cry from that infamous weekend.

NAF,

You may be conservative on your estimate.

And still, you have to get in your car and drive a good distance to get to the first tee and range.  
I'll never understand that, especially in light of the new clubhouse.

[Jeff Fortson]

I played in the 2003 Met Open at Metedeconk and found the course to be overly penal.  I'll give three point I enjoyed and three points I disliked...

Enjoyed...

1.  Setting.  It is on a beautiful piece of property.  Deer roaming everywhere and you feel like you are in the middle of nowhere.

2.  Practice facility.  Unbelievable driving range, putting greens and short game greens.  You can work on any part of your game in complete privacy.

3.  Clubhouse.  A fine example of a clubhouse that is fantastic without being 100,000 square feet.



Disliked...

1.  Excluding the par 3's there wasn't one hole under 400 yards from the back tees.  There wasn't one great short par 4.  

2.  Playable width of holes were extremely tight for the length.  450+ yard holes shouldn't be 40-50 yards wide from tree line to tree line on every hole.  I never felt comfortable on any tee shot.  There was no let up, anywhere.  Fairways were 30 yards wide, maximum.

3.  The trees.  The trees were not the kind you can play out of.      There was no room to stand in them, let alone swing.  Effectively, if you hit the ball in the trees you were screwed, totally.  It was like playing with OB left and right on every hole.  It was that penal.  

In total, I ended up hitting more irons and 3-woods off the tee thatn drivers.  On a course measuring 7,300- 7,400 yards that becomes pretty boring and aggravating after a while.

In summary, I'd play there again for the country club experience but I would never play there for the enjoyment of examining my game or for a fun round of golf.


Jeff F.

[grandwazo]

NAF
Unfortunately, yes, I had your experience,  and the doctors telling my wife that if she had not brought me in to the hospital that she would have been a very rich woman in another 30 minutes....including the scar,but at 45 years of age and went from 180 to 140 lbs after 10 days in the hospital.  
And, with that, came a different perspective on life.  I am very glad we are both here to discuss the merits of this golf course.  I agree with Jeff Fortson's summary 100%.  
Regards

[David Panzarasa]

MATT WARD- I agree with you 100% about your assesment of Plainfield in regards to the other two courses.
 I played MNCC a couple of times with some pros and they were just so beat up from the course it was shocking. I am not a pro nor close to one, but can hold my own and it is an interesting course because it really almost brought people more even? As in, I am not as long as the pros by a long shot but my short game is great. if you hit into the rough when it is up, it is almost no difference then hitting out of the woods, it is that hard!! and no one hits all the fairways with drivers. Par 3's are nothing to exciting but for me as a shorter hitter they are fine lol. Hidden Creek is just a pleasure to play and I would play that most times over MNCC.
 I also agree wiht Matt Ward that the 9th hole i believe on the 3rd nine (?) might be one of the visually and physically difficult hole ESPECIALLY after playing a hole round and walking and in the summer heat.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Geoff Childs,

I was well on my way to recovery when I played with Moriarty and Shackelford, which caused a relapse.

I'm almost fully recovered.

Pat- Oh those guys.  I played with David M at Hidden Creek and he had me hitting shots with these funny clubs with wooden shafts.    You didn't mean left handed guys.  You meant guys from the left coast.  I understand now  

Shinnecock doesn't play for the members as it did for the last two days of the US OPEN.  Everyone understands the conditions of the golf course due to pre-tournament preparation, and post tournament recovery.
Day in and day out, it's a far cry from that infamous weekend.

Of course that's true but even so the setup for nearly a year before the event caused the members to play by rules outside those of golf. Metedeconk can likely be altered to play exceptionally difficult for a tournament but need not play that way for more typical member play.  It will always be more penal and generally difficult then Hidden Creek although I must say I scored better there then any round at HC  

[NAF]

Pat- I believe the problem is a taxation one.  The 19th hole is in Alpine NJ, the clubhouse in Demarest.  I believe the club would love to have one clubhouse at the top but Demarest might sue them then plus I'm not sure if there is enough parking space.  Obviously, I'd much prefer they relocate maintenance etc to the bottom and have the clubhouse at the top and forgo the two tier system.. Still, I'm hanging on as a member til the project finishes.

I played Metedeconk when the rough has been down and the conditions member friendly.  Still a supreme test on the driver (of which is my greatest bugaboo) but it did not play as hard as the conditions Dr. Child brings forth on Shinny pre the Open.  I also played Shinny pre the Open and while I played from the member tees and did well for some reason, my 2 playing partners thought the course atrocious.