National Treasure

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Just a few mooments here, but yesterday, I had a small window open-up to go revisit the National Golf Links of America--"Our National Treasure".

If ever there was a college for golf course architecture its undoubtedbly on Long Island. I suggest to any of you that enjoy this subject, to beg, borrow, steal, sell a kidney, sell your first born   and try to secure a tee time at one if not all of these courses. If its the opposite, and all's you are looking for is to add the course to a resume of courses played, well then don't bother. It's all just way above your head. If there is indeed a golf architecture heaven, it is on Long Island.

So, with that.....

I wanted to hi-light something of gereat interest from this trip. Bill Salinetti's work at NGLA is astounding and should serve as a role model of what can be if you really want it to be something. Not that NGLA needed anything more, but its just so amazing just how much this course now fits its landscape. It's as if C.B. came down from heaven and directed Bill on what needed to be done to restore this course to its fullest, most definitive state.

What you will see is a mass of trees all gone--finito--destructo, zappo-blown to smithereens. What is left is a landscape that leaves you feeling as if you have transported yourself into a wormhole back into 1913. while my little Canon and it's stock lense can't capture the full width, I had to literally turn myself into a tri-pod just so I could try to capture the landscape as I saw it, so pardon the changes in color thru-out the sky.

Bill has also managed to recapture many a putting surface on the course--the most obvious at holes #1 & 18, which are now for the most part even more challenging. It's both impressive and elightening and if your a superintendent or on a green committee, it is obvious you owe yourself a trip to NGLA just to see what its all about.

Further, while the stark, barren landscape might look ugly to some, please do realize that Eastern Long Island is in the midst of about now, given the current storn that's hitting outside of this window--2-3 weeks behind schedule. You not going to see a lot of the beautiful fescues, blue stems and other fauna growing yet, but, in about two weeks, it should be beautiful in color.

Congrautlations to Bill on a wonderful job done.

The entire left side of this hole from the tee was a forest of trees--all gone! Kapoof!


At one time, you could never see the 5th hole from the tee on #4, not anymore!



#8, "The Bottle Hole" in what looks to be it's most pristine state since the first quarter of the 20th century. That entire left side was trees, trees and some trees. Now its simply breathtaking.



The After of this shot, shows the amount of trees on the left side. (this image is taken from the back bunker of the Road Hole, so #8 is in the back ground.) Once again, I love the way the loss of trees has rid that isolated feel of the course on some of the holes. It wasn't totally encompassing, but it did section off certain holes. Now, the course is all just out there, and frankly, its pretty interesting to see the difference.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy,

The genius of the architecture reveals more of itself with each return visit.

It's truely a special golf course.

Now, perhaps you can better understand my fondness for that golf course.

But, don't forget, that if you haven't played all of the golf courses in New York State, you really can't understand and appreciate NGLA's inherent, brilliant architecture  

[Geoffrey Childs]

Tommy

If Cypress Point is "the Sistine Chapel of Golf" then

NGLA must be heaven itself.  

It is IMHO the single greatest treasure in American Golf.  
I've seen Bill's work there and it is all you say and more.  
I just walked around a bit with Tony Pioppi last fall
(we were looking for TEPaul's long lost dog after a round nearby  ) and just happed to run into
George Bahto snapping photos.  What a treat.

Great photos' - thanks

[Michael Moore]

Mr. Naccarato -

Can you explain to me how enjoying the subject of golf course architecture is the opposite of just adding courses to one's resume?

[ed_getka]

Tommy,
  Thanks for the pix. I fully agree about the college idea. As I went round the course a few years ago I just couldn't believe there aren't more courses like NGLA. Anyone who wants to be an architect should just go around that place all day every day for a week, and they will be way ahead of the pack.

[James Bennett]

Ed

I have never been to NGLA, but I recently had the good fortune to read (stumbled across?) George bahto's book on CB MacDonald "the Evangelist".  The photo's and layouts are outstanding, and enables a two-dimensional appreciation.  All of that at one course.  Wow.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Michael,
You seem to be a bright guy, or at least fancy yourself as one--I think you can figure it out yourself.

Missed your attendence at Hidden Creek.

[Gerry B]

Tommy:

Nice photos. As you are aware when I saw you in NY 2 Saturdays ago had just finished playing NGLA/ Shinnecock that day. If there is a course that is more fun to play day in and day out- let me know where it is.

Michael Moore - as the old proverb goes - if you have nothing good to say.....   // also Tommy did not play there  - he just took some some photos for the rest of us to enjoy

[ForkaB]

Gerry B

I'm glad that Thomas Paine and others didn't subscribe to your "If you don't have something good to say...." rule.

Tommy

Please answer Michael's legitimate question, and while you're at it, tell us just what you actually LEARNED from your visit to NGLA vis avis GCA, not just what you saw and photographed.

Great pictures, BTW!

[Philippe Binette]

Opening the golf course by cutting all those trees looks to give a better perspective of the beauty of the site, as a land for golf...

I've been there in 2003 and my pics are totally different than those...

[T_MacWood]

Anyone who has Lido, Royal Palms and Lake Norconnian on his 'resume', really doesn't have a 'resume'.

[PThomas]

Tommy -- well let's see, I have both kindneys and three daughters (thank God!) , so if I sell one kidney and......aw, never mind...

but I do have a crazy young labrador that's really cute and ......heck , nix that too.....

great pictures/looks fabulous

pt

[SPDB]

Have these photos been retouched. The horizon lines
look fake.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Sean,

The pictures are all stock without retouching other then splicing them together, but I did take a golf cart out of one of them. (the one with the lady's group, teeing it off at #11 of the Eden Club that was visiting NGLA that day.)

Rich,
If the shoe fits.......

But I'll answer quite quickly to you. What have I learned? Lots, stuff I had even forgotten since my last visit. Mostly all fairway contours, green contours, stuff like that. Stuff that would bore you to death. Amazingly fun, quirky stuff.  Like for instance the current green on #1, Did you know that the current back of it was actually teeing ground for #2 and it was expanded--brilliantly, mind you--by Karl Olson? The current 2nd tee was also built by Karl, and while Bill pointed it out to me that its set on a pretty severe angle, almost like a rocket launcher, looking back at it from the very front of the 1st green, you can see it set at the same angle as the back of the #1green/old #2 tee.

But then again, you probably knew that didn't you!

Also quite interesting was hearing Bill explain the actual amended soil that C.B. explains in Scotland's Gift, where they carted it in, and that you can dig down, see about 2-4 inches of the stuff and then its pure sand. Sort of sends a neat kind of shiver down your spine.

Absolute brilliance.

[ForkaB]

Thanks, Tommy.

So the famous five greens-within-greens of #1 were actually four greens and a tee?  Cool.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Tommy
Wonderful pictures that just make for a deeper longing to visit than already was present in my golfing heart.......

[Jonathan Cummings]

Tommy - thanks for the pics.  It appears that after all these years I will have an opportunity (my first) to play Nat and Shinney this summer.  I can't wait to join the ranks of those "who have found the treasure".

J

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Rich,

Bill has actually reclaimed more green space in front @ #1, revealing an even more imposing false front. Its some really cool stuff. If you loved the green before, your going to be loving it even more.

#18 green has also been reclaimed in both the front and the back. The pin-placement there in the back is a dynamo with literally all side dropping off into a deep pit of sandy dispair. That C.B. knew something.

MW-P, Wait till you see it for yourself with all of the trees gone. It's an ominous site.

Jon, Glad your getting to see this phenominal golfing ground. I challenge you to go look at the courses before playing them. Go familiarize yourself with the National surroundings in person first and then play and see for yourself the genius.

[ForkaB]

Never said I loved that green, Tommy, just said that it was cool that part of it used to be a tee. I'll bet CB is rolling over in his grave at such a desecration......

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rich Goodale,

What desecration are you refering to ?

I think Tommy may have used the wrong word, "ominous" to describe the tree clearing.  I think ? he meant awesome.

As to the first green, I love it.
I think it's the most frightening first green in golf, and with the second tee incorporated within its footpad, it's extra neat, albeit a little risky.

The blind nature of the tee shot at # 2 makes positioning a nearby tee for # 3 almost impossible.  I never examined the possibility of installing a tee for # 3 on the left of the 2nd green.  A similar concept was undertaken at # 16 & 17, and, George Bahto indicates that #'s 8 and 12 had a similar situation before the tees were both moved to the right.

I'd like to hear the thoughts of those familiar with NGLA on the possibility of creating a left side tee for # 3 so as to bring the cross bunker back into play.

[TEPaul]

TommyN:

I sure did know the back of the first green and much of the next tee was done by Karl Olsen. I seem to recall standing there with Matt Burrows and perhaps BillS with them saying that some think (perhaps them) that the rear portion may need to be rebuilt. I hope not because that is one helluva cool little bowl on the back left on that green.

But who did that existing green surface (other than the rear portion done by Olsen) is somewhat of an enigma to everyone I've ever spoken to about NGLA, including GeorgeB I think. All I can say is there's a photo of some significant characters standing on the front of that green probably in the early teens and it didn't look to me like it does now. Back then it looked even more radical then it does now--if you can believe it. So some who probably know say, something out there is Perry Maxwell. Could it be some reworking of some of the first green? Apparently the club may not admit to that though.

And now that GOLFCLUBATLAS.com is into some startling revelations apparently C.B himself was basically thrown out of his own club within the last year or so of his life. When he died they got rid of C.B's old greenkeeper (Tereski) too and gave him a lot of  C.B’s stuff from the club (plans, whatnot). Most of that stuff flowed on down to Tereski’s grandson. I think GeorgeB has seen most of this stuff.

George:

What was the name of the guy who basically took over NGLA in the last year or so of C.B’s life? Was his name Johnson? They told me but I forgot.

[ForkaB]

Paqt

Isn't the architectural renovation of CB's masterpiece by Olsen at least a venial sin in the GCA catechism?  So what if the 1st green is better than it used to be--it's not how McDonald designed it, isn't it?

[George_Bahto]

Tom Paul: yes his last name was Johnson - I'm not at home so cannot look up his 1st name, but he was a lawyer who took over after CB was too ill to continue his "dictatorship."

He was only  pres for one year.

I have a terrible letter he wrote to Tureski, firing him and dissing him while firing him. He basically dismissed him because he was Charlie's "boy" for about 20 years.

The gave Mike Tureski $500 buck severance - Yipppee-do.

Ipersonall can’t go down the road, Tom, that CBM was "basically thrown out" - pretty harsh - I'd soften that by saying "moved out" ......... (see, I have a very soft spot for that old fart).

They certainly wanted him out so they could soften up the course and also implement things they couldn't while he was in power.

........ ah, it was Wayne Johnson I think.

........  anyhow, during the last three years of his life, 1936 thru '38 he was quite ill and I guess the $$ was running a bit short, so it was moving out of the big house into “White House,” a smaller home on the same property.

Well, this is why that cache of great stuff I got came to be for having to downscale his belongings, lots of it, instead of  being discarded, was (fortunately) saved when the super took much of it home. That's where i got access to so much of the unpublished pictures, the expense records from the 20's, plans, letters to Tureski and so much more (much of which I have not let out yet myself).

Lucky indeed!!

I understand that in the early 50's the basement of NGLA's clubhouse was "cleaned out" and great stuff was discarded (models of greens???  could you imagine?).

[Patrick_Mucci]

Isn't the architectural renovation of CB's masterpiece by Olsen at least a venial sin in the GCA catechism?
I'm not so sure that TEPaul has his facts right.
The foot pad of the first green remains unchanged.
Olsen didn't reconstruct that green, it was that way before he arrived and no different when he left.

The only difference on the greens at # 1 and # 11 is the height of the cut in the back right of both greens.

I find nothing wrong with the tee on # 2.
The old tees were serious safefy hazards.
I think the new tee enhances the hole.[/color]

So what if the 1st green is better than it used to be--it's not how McDonald designed it, isn't it?

It sure is.  The foot pad and internal contouring are unchanged by Olsen.  George Bahto, in his book, "The Evangelist of Golf" describes it as one of MacDonald's most intricate, so I don't know where you got the notion that Karl Olsen or any one else altered it.

Unless, you're accepting TEPaul's vague recollection and interpretation of an old black and white photo but from one angle as the gospel ?  

Have I taught you nothing about that man over the last five years ?[/color]

[ForkaB]

Pat

I am not so unwise to quote TE Paul in your presence.  It was your fellow paesano, Tommy Naccarato, in his post above, who said, when I asked him what he had learned at NGLA:

"Like for instance the current green on #1, Did you know that the current back of it was actually teeing ground for #2 and it was expanded--brilliantly, mind you--by Karl Olson?"

Perhaps he was misinformed.

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