NCAA D1 Golf Championships - Courses

[Mike Benham]

The 3 regionals are being played at ND's Warren Course, Stanford and The Golf Club of Tennessee from May 19 - 21st.

I will be interested to see how the new holes at Stanford play out.

If Michael Kim is still on the board, he can probably give us a play by play from the Warren course.

NCAA D1 Regionals

[Ken Fry]

Mike,

I'll be officiating for the entire event at the Warren Course.  I can give you updates along with Michael.

The course held up well for the Big East Championship, but weather conditions were horrible with the second day canceled due to snow!  Won't have that problem this time around.

Ken

[THuckaby2]

It will indeed be most interesting to see how the little version of the big boys do at these courses.  Obviously as a local I am most interested in how they will tear up Stanford - or not.  I have to think they will go pretty low, but relative to par it might not look all that crazy... the course with #4 changed to a par 3 is now par-70, correct?

Interesting... Stanford has yet to update their website to show the course changes.  Very strange... they've been in place for quite awhile now, haven't they?

http://www.stanfordgolfcourse.com/

BTW, of course it will be interesting to see how the college studs do, but what you are all really waiting for is to find out the new course rating and slope.  We go ascertain that on June 2.  

TH

[Craig Van Egmond]

My Cowboys are the favorites at the Warren course this year, let's hope it works out that way!

Any tv  coverage on these?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Mike Kim is not longer the superintendent of The Warren Course. Matt Ceilon is, formally of Point O Woods.

[Ken Fry]

Mike Kim is not longer the superintendent of The Warren Course. Matt Ceilon is, formally of Point O Woods.

Anthony,

Kim Hocker was the previous supt.  Michael Kim is a student at Notre Dame who has posted here before.

Ken

[Bill_McBride]

Tom, I played Stanford the day before the KP started, with John Krystnyk and one of the assistants at Stanford.  It was my first time to play there; loved it, great feeling of solitude and isolation on many of those holes.  They told me we were among the first ever to play the new holes, #3 and #4.  These were two solid par 3's, both have the creek/barranca in play although not the forced carry like the hole on the back nine.  The back tee on #5 plays directly over the 4th green below which was pretty cool!

[Mike Benham]

The back tee on #5 plays directly over the 4th green below which was pretty cool!

Here is the view Bill speaks of ...

[Ken Fry]

Is that a back tee?  Is there any possibility of "topped shots" raining down on those putting out??  

[Mike Benham]

Is that a back tee?  Is there any possibility of "topped shots" raining down on those putting out??  

Yes, it is the back tee and probably not in play everday.  The 4th green is down and to the right (you can see the white of the bunker).

A double-dogleg par 4 ... !!!

[Anthony_Nysse]

Ken,
  Thanks for the help. I couldn't remember if Kim was the Supt first or last name. I've been out of that area of the country for a while.....

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[ForkaB]

That new back tee was the old regular tee back in the pre-Arts & Crafts Movement days when I was at Stanford--when the 4th was a longish 4 along the road to a two-tiered green which is now in the middle of a big intersection......

It makes 5 a great hole, as the diagonal ridge in the middle of the fairway comes into play.  It is not a double-dogleg, unless of course you slice your drive behind the big tree on the right....

[THuckaby2]

Great stuff re Stanford gents - thanks.  It still remains strange to me that they've yet to update their website to show the changes... I guess things move slowly on the Farm.  

And Rich, as I'm sure you know, the old #4 green, up there in the corner, served as a GREAT practice green for many years, after they moved 4 green to its current location left of the creek and below the hill... I spent many happy hours there. And a tee area for #5 was always there as well... just not cut and formalized as it is now.  I always wanted to hit one from up there...

My wife's office is a block up Sand Hill Rd. from this site.  To say she could care less about the golf changes, and is ecstatic it is that much easier for her to get down to the shopping center, is the understatement of the year.  

In any case I will be quite interested to see all this for myself in a few weeks.

[Mike Benham]

It is not a double-dogleg, unless of course you slice your drive behind the big tree on the right....

Before I put my foot in my mouth, has their been any additional modifications to this hole in the past 5 months?  Is the big non-native tree on the left still present?  Did they reshape any of the fairway from this angle?

[johnk]

I can't recall - I think an Oak to the right is gone - fell over in a storm.  They have moved the rough lines a bit to the right, I think.

But before you do put your foot in your mouth, I would strongly advise you NOT to argue that this is a double dogleg from the new tee...  

[Mike Benham]

John ... Did you guys play from this box last month?  What's the yardage from up top?

The more I look at the new (old) 5th tee, the more I dislike it.  

First, the cart path and irrigation box are just plain tacky and hopefully something will be done to remedy that.  

Second, the angle of the tee box and more importantly, the opening between the non-native trees directs the playing angle in a bizarre direction.

I would argue for the better players, the ones that are likely to be using this tee, that they have made this an easier hole.  Now it is essentially a straight away par-4, just bomb driver over the right edge of non-native tree on the left.  The fairway has plenty of width there so there is not a huge risk for semi-wild tee shot ...

Mike

[THuckaby2]

Mike:  you DARE comment on a golf hole you haven't played?  How anti-Muccian of you....

 

Not willing to venture too far down this path until after June 2, I will say only this:  if JK is correct and the big tree on the right is gone, that concerns me big time.  That tree governed everything on the tee shot from the lower tee, and would serve to keep players honest from the upper.  If it's gone, then bombs away..... hello flog, goodbye golf....

TH

ps - can it be... no it can't be so... are those RAVINES running throughout this golf course?  Good lord... the plans for housing all over the course should have been supported, not fought... what an awful site for a golf course... surely Stanford could have found some suitable linksland for such. (insert sarcastic laugh as this is yet another great golf course that proves the folly of Hunter's "shun the land with many ravines" statement)

[johnk]

Huck, don't worry, the tree that fell over was not in view in Mike's pic, it's the one by the water fountain near the old 5tee. The also got rid of a fir on the left, but I don't think it's in Mike's pic either.

Yes, we played it. I don't know the yardage, I'd guess about 420 from the backs - I've played it several times.  There's no weird angle, but it's a fabulous "look down" on the fairway, right to the green below.  I think it's a leitmotif of Stanford these promontory tee shots, and I love it.  Believe me, I used to listen to a lot of nostalgia from old times about this hallowed lost tee, and I doubted it was all that great, but I think it is.  Yeah, I agree, the cart path out at about 150 yds is pretty annoying...

For the college kids, I don't think they made the hole easier, because it was a very short hole for them from the old tee, and there wasn't a lot of need to shape before.  Adding 25 yards means they'll be hitting 7,8,9 in, I think, and the big green is still the hole's defense.

Standing on the tee, it definitely plays straightway, and the shot problem is getting over the ridge, and putting your tee shot in the clear away from the big tree on the right.

Now, don't get me started on the new par 3s, because as I've written before, I don't think they fit in, they are too exposed to the road, and the walk to get from tee to green is ridiculous in both cases.  But the 5th tee is definitely an improvement that almost makes up for all that...

[THuckaby2]

JK:

Great stuff, many thanks.  I understand all of this and from my many previous plays of the course, looking at the pic, and my imagination, I'd say I concur completely.  But of course I don't count because I haven't played the new #3 or 4 nor have I hit from the upper tee on #5.  

Re the new par 3s, well I would ask more questions but I guess I just have to wait to see them in person.  I can imagine that exposure to the new, bigger Sand Hill Road must suck... and yep, there's no good way to get from tee to green at either of them due to that damn RAVINE also, huh?

So maybe Hunter was right... dammit they need some good linksland in Palo Alto.  Trash the whole course!

 

TH

ps - you and McBride didn't by chance play with Phil Marrone, did you?  He is a great guy, friend of mine... teaching pro at Stanford.

[johnk]

No, we played with Russ, who is Senor Benham's school mate from 35 years ago...

I think I missed the who Ravine excitement, though... what thread was that?

[Mike Benham]

Re the new par 3s, well I would ask more questions but I guess I just have to wait to see them in person.  I can imagine that exposure to the new, bigger Sand Hill Road must suck... and yep, there's no good way to get from tee to green at either of them due to that damn RAVINE also, huh?

Huck -

The wooden fence in this photo has been replaced with a 4 foot high stucco wall ... so I'm not sure how much of the new Sand Hill road you see while playing the new holes.  I'm sure you still hear the traffic but it has to be better then the old chain link fence ...

Mike

[Michael Kim]

I played the Warren course last Saturday. They have put new sand in the bunkers which gives the course a lighter look, but the sand isn't that dark clay-like red that gave Warren its rustic look. However, the playability of the sand is amazing and consistent. I can tell you this: the road-hole like bunker in front of Green no. 5 is not as daunting as it once was... at least in appearance.

The greens were surprisingly slow. I imagine that Matt Cielen (the super) is just making sure the grass grows properly before cross- cutting them to get them up to ridiculous speeds.

The weather in South Bend has been unusually cold for this time of year. If the wind kicks up like I know the wind can kick up in South Bend, then look out. If not, then look for the players to go low. One of the golfers on the team (Baldwin?) recently shot a 63 on the course.



                                                                                 

[Mike Benham]

The NCAA Regionals are going on with live scoring ... Oscar Alvarez of BYU shot 63 at Standford during the opening round which was played in not very good weather ... a pretty decent run on the backside ...

Oscar Alvarez' 63 at Stanford

[johnk]

Well, it looks like Stanford held its own:

                   Scoring average     Total Rounds
Championship Tees     74.14           361

So I guess the course rating should be about 75 from the backs...  The winner was a Stanford player who was -6 for the 3 days.

Not bad for 6742 yds, par 70.  I checked it out a bit on Friday, and the rough was very serious.  The par 4s set up to be long enough, and the par 3s were tough, too.  

However, I think it also illustrates the massive gulf between the college boys and the pros, watching the somewhat weak field tear up Colonial today...  they'd probably average 70 or less at Stanford.

The back tee on #5 plays 447 yds, which is a bit more than I thought.

[Ken Fry]

The Warren Course at Notre Dame proved to be a worthy venue.  Tournamen stats. show a scoring average of 74.35 on 404 rounds.  35 over par moved a team on to the National Finals.

Nothing was "tricked up" with course set up or conditioning.  Greens were running between 9.5 and 10 on the stimp.  The course was playing a little softer than probably hoped due to heavy rain the area received Thursday.  Rough was thick but not overwhelming.

My Lord some of these kids hit the golf ball an incredibly long way!!

Ken