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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2005, 08:21:20 AM »
SJ

As someone from north of the M-D, I find the name slightly distasteful, much like I find the Confederate flag distasteful.  I would think minorities would stay well away from this club!

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

wsmorrison

Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2005, 08:35:13 AM »
"JAL:

Actually, people in Cleveland don't refer to the Pepper Pike club as "The Country Club".

I've always only heard "Country"."

The Pepper Pike Club is next door to The Country Club; both in Pepper Pike, Ohio.  The PPC guys call their club "Pepper" (it spices up their lives) and, as Tim said, TCC club guys call their club "Country".

Bill Dow refers to his old club, Philadelphia Country Club as "Country" as do other Old Guard members.

I agree with Sean, Secession is an awful name to many.  Of course, to the members of the club it has a different sense and they're entitled but it certainly would be a difficult marketing project to some cross-sections of America.

SJ_McCarthy

Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2005, 10:54:13 PM »
Sean,

You need to use a dictionary when you don't know the definition of a word rather than ASSuming the definition is something it clearly is NOT.

I am also from North of the MD line, PA to be exact. I am not offended by the name, help me understand why you are offended?

Why would "minorities" stay away from thsi club?  Secession has zero to do with anything race related.

Matter of fact there are "minority" members at Secession, there goes your theory.

SJ

As someone from north of the M-D, I find the name slightly distasteful, much like I find the Confederate flag distasteful.  I would think minorities would stay well away from this club!

Ciao

Sean

SJ_McCarthy

Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2005, 10:56:10 PM »
Wayne, you also need to check your definitions, seems as if you might be misinformed...


The act of seceding.
often Secession The withdrawal of 11 Southern states from the Union in 1860-1861, precipitating the U.S. Civil War.

"JAL:

Actually, people in Cleveland don't refer to the Pepper Pike club as "The Country Club".

I've always only heard "Country"."

The Pepper Pike Club is next door to The Country Club; both in Pepper Pike, Ohio.  The PPC guys call their club "Pepper" (it spices up their lives) and, as Tim said, TCC club guys call their club "Country".

Bill Dow refers to his old club, Philadelphia Country Club as "Country" as do other Old Guard members.

I agree with Sean, Secession is an awful name to many.  Of course, to the members of the club it has a different sense and they're entitled but it certainly would be a difficult marketing project to some cross-sections of America.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #54 on: May 22, 2005, 05:03:30 AM »
SJ

I am not sure where you are heading with this.  If a club in S.C. is called Secession (which I would have to wonder why call the club this if it has nothing to do with the Civil War) and you can't make the connection as to one of the reasons as to why S.C. initiated the war, well then, I stand corrected.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #55 on: May 22, 2005, 07:50:05 AM »
Westward Ho!
Any name with an exclamation mark. On the other hand, based upon some of the worries expressed in this thread, this name might not go down to well in certain US communities.

wsmorrison

Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #56 on: May 22, 2005, 09:42:35 AM »
SJ,

I know what secession means and the connotation for me of a club in South Carolina is pretty apparent.  Now, to be fair, it might connotate a secession from the public life to a private one, but is this really the case?    

Isn't it obvious to you why a large cross-section of Americans, black and white, would find the name uncomfortable?  I think the historical reference you brought up is exactly the first thing that comes to most minds and is the reason why it is an odd name for a club that is seeking a national and international membership.  

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #57 on: May 22, 2005, 11:24:25 AM »
My friend's course in Idaho is perched on a Lake Coeur d'Alene cliff (across from Black Rock).  You frequently see bald eagles and ospreys drafting along the shore.  I suggested that they call the place The Aerie Golf Club (I don't believe any course anywhere uses this name).  The Mirabel people and Discovery decided to name it Gozzer Ranch GC after the old man who homesteaded here for the better part of a century.

JC
« Last Edit: May 22, 2005, 11:52:10 AM by Jonathan »

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2005, 11:29:40 AM »
It is sad to me to see that historical events are boiled down to their most current impact as the reason for past actions and events.  In the north, industrialization, centralization of power and economic in fighting were as much a factor in the onset of the war as the John Brown’s of the time and the anti-slavery movement.  Further, the notion that location north or south of the Mason-Dixon determined a given populations stance on slavery is absurd.  There were as many anti-slavery proponents in the south as the north who participated in the war for the south as a result of their positions on individual / states rights and beliefs in agrarian society and economy particularly in South Carolina.  

The Civil War has been boiled down to Blue vs. Grey, us vs. them, and all over slavery because it is intellectually easy. I agree that some very evil people have used the Star & Bars, currently and in the past, as a symbol in their treachery while others have also used the Stars & Stripes for less then honorable purposes and associations.  Let’s not forget that the great Emancipation Act which freed the slaves did not free a single slave in the Union and that after its signing slavery still existed legally throughout the Union well after the war.

Secession was, at the time, a viable and legal alternative for disagreeing states not nearly as ill mannered as civil disobedience.  At the time the United States was a group of united states, not the centralized united state we live in today.  For many, secession is a term that embraces the individual’s right to liberty and independence.  The same independence that held so dear to lead a group of colonies to secede from another union, united kingdom.

It is a shame that I even have to write this next line.  This is not given as an excuse or condoning of slavery.  Slavery is/was obviously wrong.  But simplifying all of the motives that led to all of the participants of the Civil War down to evil is equally wrong.  For many the Stars & Bars represent heritage not hatred.  Those that use the icon in their wickedness should be condemned, but history should not be cast aside for the sake of mental convenience.

Jim Thompson
1st Sgt. 144th Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry
"Zouave d’ Afrique"  "Collis' Zouaves"
Jim Thompson

wsmorrison

Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #59 on: May 22, 2005, 11:56:18 AM »
Jim,

I never said I felt that the name was overwhelmingly offensive to me, but rather that I could easily see how it would be to many.  I think it a bit distasteful, but I wouldn't have it deter me from visiting and being open-minded to the membership.  But if they want national and international members, it is not a marketing plus no matter how you intellectualize the source of the name.

Further, I never drew geographical lines (Mason-Dixon for instance) to distinguish who would be offended.  In what way did I boil down a complicated dynamic?  All I said was that it can be construed as an awful name to many.  I think this is true and doesn't generalize one side of the Civil War as evil and the other as good.  

Be at ease, Sgt  ;)

John Engelbrecht

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2005, 12:33:30 PM »
Old Tabby Golf Links...good course; great name.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #61 on: May 22, 2005, 05:28:32 PM »
Jim

You seem to forget that South Carolina instigated a war by bombing Fort Sumpter.  Fellow Americans serving under at least one flag that was the same. You may term this aggression as legitimate and legal, however, that is far from the truth.

I don't think for a minute that Old Abe would not have traded slavery for the union of north and south.  He would have in a heartbeat.  There is no doubt that Lincoln used The Emancipation Act as a political tool during war.  This doesn't, however, reduce the legitimacy for the act.  It must be remembered that Lincoln had pledged during The Republican nomination campaign to exclude slavery from the new western territories altogether.  The major issues were slavery, the Pacific railroad, tariffs and land grants (in the west).  All of these issues combined to create an air of secession.  There is no doubt that the Republicans grossly underestimated the south's will in this matter!

Lincoln did not even bother to campaign in the south.  Southerners were hostile to a man who was not even on the ticket in their part of the country.  Lincoln was elected mainly because the Democrats split.  Some even believe that the ultra-radical southern Democrats wanted a Republican victory to precipitate the south into secession.  Sounds far fetched, but 7 of the 8 states whose delegates walked out of the convention at Charleston were the same 7 which constituted the original Southern Confederacy.  

Jim, it was revolutionary that the country had committed itself electorally to a party which opposed slavery.  Lincoln certainly wanted the strange institition "to be placed in the course of ultimate extinction".  During the seventy two years from 1789 to 1861, slaveholders had held the presidency for fifty years.  No major party had expressed clear opposition to slavery until 1856.  A truly remarkable achievement by the Republicans.

In political structure, the election of 1860 marked the end of bisectional parties reinforcing the viability of the Union.  The elections of Jackson, Van Buren, Harrison, Polk, Taylor and Pierce had all been bisectional-compromise victories.  The majority of free and slave states voted for the winner.  The Republican party was strictly a free state party.  With the election of Lincoln sectionalization was victorious.  By winning, Lincoln became the President of ten states in which he was not even on the ticket.  


I realize the Civil War had complex roots, but to underestimate probably the largest cause of all, slavery, is revisionist history at its worst.  My opinion of using name Secession Club, remains as stated in my earlier post.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #62 on: May 22, 2005, 09:29:51 PM »
Sean,

You seem to forget that Fort Sumter was part of the sovereign State of South Carolina and was attacked only after negotiations with the Buchanan administration failed to transfer their ownership back to their state of ownership.  South Carolina seceded on December 20, of 1860.  Two days after leaving the Union, on December 22, 1860, South Carolina sent commissioners to Washington, D.C., to negotiate for the delivery of federal property, such as forts, within the state.

Major Robert Anderson moved his force from Fort Moultrie to Fort Sumter on December 26, an act which could be viewed as an attack or occupation of the sovereign state of South Carolina by order of President Buchanan.  Further the Fort was not attacked in that the firing was actually on the Star of the West which was sent to reinforce the garrison force under Major Anderson on January 9th.  

The provisional Confederate government, after assuming responsibility for questions concerning forts, arsenals, and other federal property within the states of the Confederacy, resolved on February 15 that "immediate steps should be taken to obtain possession of forts Sumter and Pickens . . . either by negotiations or force." It authorized President-elect Davis to carry the resolution into effect. Under this authority, Davis took charge of the military operations in Charleston Harbor on February 22, 1861. Ironically, Davis and Anderson were old friends. During the Black Hawk War, the two young West Point graduates were in charge of guarding the captured Indian leader.

On March 1st the Confederate secretary of war informed South Carolina that the government was assuming control of military operations at Charleston. President Jefferson Davis appointed General P. G. T. Beauregard to command the forces in the area.  

It was only after Lincoln's Inauguration, in which HE declared that the Constitution and the Union were perpetual entities, apparently Lincoln never read his Jefferson or he would have known this could not be the case, that the negotiations for forts Sumter and Pickens fell through.  It was also this declaration that led to the secession of the upper south, who up to this point had tried to arrange peaceable compromise and remain in the union.  

Sumter was laid siege by Beauregard as negotiations continued until April 12, when the Fox expedition arrived with troops and supplies to Fort Sumter and opened fire on the southern batteries along the coast.  So who really attacked who?

If you claim that the firing on the Star of the West was the Battle of Fort Sumter and that a force "under the same flag" fired on its own troops, you do not know the truth.

My point here is not to attack you, your knowledge or belief system but to point out how many of the facts that led up to secession and the civli war have been lost.  Very few even know how many political parties participated in 1860 election, the answer is four, by the way.  Another fact often lost is that Linciln didn't win the popular vote.  Had the democratic ticket not had a candidate from the territiory of Oregon he may not have won the electoral vote either.  Only a portion of the Republican party was abolitionist.  The parties formal position was against the expansion of slavery while wanting to reserve new territories for free white expansion.

I am certainly not a revisionist, I'm the son of a history teacher for crying out loud, my only wish is that icons and terms not be deemed as negative do to lack of knowledge.  If Lincoln doesn't declare the Constitution perpetual the war probably doesn't happen.  That lack of knowledge is a result of a failing educational system and intellectual convenience.  I certainly understand how individuals who have been failed by the system can take positions and believe them, but as in all things, information and open sharing can change perceptions.  

This interest is of particular interest to me relative to the political fallout of the civil war and centralization of authority and government which followed.  We are all paying for the failures of the post war period to this day and whether we are better for it is of infinite debate. And I’m not talking about abolition.

All meant in the spirit of good and honest discourse,

JT
« Last Edit: May 22, 2005, 09:31:55 PM by Jim Thompson »
Jim Thompson

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2005, 04:33:39 AM »
Jim

Ah, herein lies the difference to this day of the culture divide between north and south.  I believe Lincoln was absolutely correct in assuming the position of status quo as far as the union was concerned.  Not surrendering Federal forts in S.C. and Florida was a perfectly reasonable position to take.  The fact is, S.C. ended dialogue and used military force.  In truth, S.C. did not even make an honest attempt to initiate a dialogue with their president.  They chose to secede then initiate war.  It was well known that Lincoln was not going to be the aggressor, but that he would not surrender federal property.  Who knows what may have happened if a dialogue had continued.  I personally believe war was inevitable because of the imbalance of power in WDC toward the north.  I honestly think that if two or perhaps more countries would have been established then the entire US (as is presently known) would have been in peril from European intervention as well as fighting amongst individual countries.  There was no precedent either way.  However, Lincoln did take an oath to "preserve, protect and defend".

It remains quite strange that the governor of S.C. was sent a message by Lincoln stating that an attempt would be made to supply Fort Sumpter with provisions only.  These words don't sound like an ultimatum, but they were received as one by Confederate leaders.  It has been claimed that Lincoln must have known that he was taking a step which would likely lead to war.  However, all this really amounts to is that any line of action other than surrender was bound to be viewed as provocative.

I have never heard your story of Fort Sumpter opening fire on Charleston batteries before the first shell of 4:30 am on April 12 was launched by orders of General Beauregard.  This cotradicts every sourse I have ever read on the bombardment.  Fox was waiting for The Powhatan to arrive.  Before he could organize any kind of relief of Fort Sumpter, it was pounded into submission.  This bombardment lasted for 33 hours.  With no refief in sight, Anderson accepted terms of evacuation.  Jim, Beauregard received orders on April 10 to demand an evacuation of the fort.  If Anderson refused, the fort was to be reduced.  In any case, the Davis government in Montgomery had decided to inaugurate civil war at Charleston on April 9.  Word of Lincoln's intent to reprovision Sumpter had reached them the night before.  Fort Sumpter was to be taken before the Fox expedition arrived.

The primary significance of Fort Sumpter is not it started a civil war, if not Sumpter than Fort Pickens would have been the catalyst because the south was determined to gain both forts, but rather that it started a war in such as manner as to give the cause of union an eruptive force which might otherwise have been to slow to aquire if at all.  Remember, during the election Lincoln did not fare well in cities like Boston and New York where there were strong commercial ties with the south.  With southern aggession came northern unionism.  

Jim, The Presidency is not decided by popular vote, though Lincoln still had more votes than any candidate (39%).  Interestingly, S.C. did not operate on a popular vote system.  Lincoln had a clear majority in every state he carried except for California, Oregon and dubiously New Jersey.  He could have lost all three of these states and still won the election.  Lincoln was well over the number of electoral votes required for The Presidency.  

Ciao

Sean

New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2005, 10:33:36 AM »
Don't know about it being a "best name", but I like it ring:

Wack Wack

Would love to do a public course in the west and call the club Wack Wack West


Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2005, 11:20:02 AM »
Sean,

We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not Fort Sumter was part of the sovereign state of South Carolina and when in the timeline of events it did or did not become or was the property of the government of the United States, rather than the property of the state of South Carolina.  Forgetting, of course, that the US government had by March vacated all but two forts in the entire Confederacy.  You are more than welcome to believe that Lincoln was correct in his position regarding the perpetual nature of the Republic, many do.  As in many cases that lead to military action the victors position is often considered to be vindicated and justified.  Kind of like making the freethrows in pick up game of hoops when you think about it.

There is always another side to every story.  As for good faith, the envoys of South Carolina spent five months in Washington before cutting off supplies and mail to Sumter.  And only took action after the release of Fox's pending force and supplies.  The New York Evening Post of April 10 stated in quoting Lincoln, and I quote,"When the ship arrives, the rebels will "elect between peace and war." Had just a provision ship been sent it could be argued that the Conferacy was acting in bad faith, but three warships were sent as well.  It is interesting that Fox's trip is always called a reprovision in northern history tets, when it included a larger military force for occupation under not just the Powhatan but the warships Pawnee and Pocahantas as well.  The Baltic could have done the reprovision with no sign of threat.  Negotiations ceased only after Lincoln's Innauguration.  It was a profound comedy of errors between the Lincoln and Buchanan administrations.

I agree that Davis was agressive in his pursuit of reclaiming the lands of th south.  Negotiations broke down only after Lincoln voided the rights of the state that had existed until that time against the counsel of Seward who favored giving Smter back to South Carolina.

Equal time:

Lincoln Man of Peace

Almost all historians reject the claim that Lincoln deliberately provoked the Civil War. They consider the idea unsubstantiated by evidence, inconsistent with Lincoln's character, and unwarranted by the context of events. David M. Potter, for example, contends that Lincoln sincerely pursued a policy that would avert war. Placing great-- too great-- faith in the existence of unionist sentiment in the South, Lincoln did all he could to avoid a confrontation that would und ermine unionist chances of regaining power. He modified his Inaugural Address to eliminate the threat of repossessing federal property, and seriously contemplated abandoning Sumter if military considerations made such an action necessary. Although he would not sacrifice the essential principle of Union, on every occasion, Lincoln adopted the least provocative course available.
In the end, Lincoln reluctantly sent the Sumter expedition only after learning that the reinforcement of Fort Pickens had not taken place. Since Pickens could not provide a symbol of the Union's permanency, the abandonment of Sumter was now unacceptable. Even in these circumstances, Lincoln took the most peaceable course possible. He adopted a plan to resupply rather than reinforce the fort, and informed South Carolina officials of his intention. Althou gh fighting broke out as a result of his decision, Lincoln did not deliberately choose war. Instead, he opted for a course whose consequences were unknown, and which offered at least a possibility of avoiding war.

From Potter's perspective, the bombardment of Sumter represented a failure of Lincoln's policy to avert war. War was an unintended consequence of a policy that failed because of Confederate actions and Lincoln's miscalculation of the strength and determination of the secessionist cause. The Lincoln scholar, James G. Randall, has articulated the significant distinction between intentions and unintended consequences. "To say that Lincoln meant that the first shot would be fired by the other side if a first shot was fired, is not to say that he maneuvered to have the shot fired. The distinction is fundamental," Randall observes.


Lincoln Provoked the War

Southern leaders of the Civil War period placed the blame for the outbreak of fighting squarely on Lincoln. They accused the President of acting aggressively towards the South and of deliberately provoking war in order to overthrow the Confederacy. For its part, the Confederacy sought a peaceable accommodation of its legitimate claims to independence, and resorted to measures of self-defence only when threatened by Lincoln's coercive policy. Thus, Confederate vice president, Alexander H. Stephens, claimed that the war was "inaugurated by Mr. Lincoln." Stephens readily acknowledged that General Beauregard's troops fired the "first gun." But, he argued, the larger truth is that "in personal or national conflicts, it is not he who strikes the first blow, or fires the first gun that inaugurates or begins the conflict." Rather, the true aggressor is "the first who renders force necessary."
Stephens identified the beginning of the war as Lincoln's order sending a "hostile fleet, styled the 'Relief Squadron'," to reinforce Fort Sumter. "The war was then and there inaugurated and begun by the authorities at Washington. General Beauregard did not open fire upon Fort Sumter until this fleet was, to his knowledge, very near the harbor of Charleston, and until he had inquired of Major Anderson . . . whether he would engage to take no part in the expected blow, then coming down upon him from the approaching fleet . . . When Major Anderson . . .would make no such promise, it became necessary for General Beauregard to strike the first blow, as he did; otherwise the forces under his command might have been exposed to two fires at the same time-- one in front, and the other in the rear." The use of force by the Confederacy , therefore, was in "self-defence," rendered necessary by the actions of the other side.

Jefferson Davis, who, like Stephens, wrote his account after the Civil War, took a similar position. Fort Sumter was rightfully South Carolina's property after secession, and the Confederate government had shown great "forbearance" in trying to reach an equitable settlement with the federal government. But the Lincoln administration destroyed these efforts by sending "a hostile fleet" to Sumter. "The attempt to represent us as the aggressors," Davis argued, "is as unfounded as the complaint made by the wolf against the lamb in the familiar fable. He who makes the assault is not necessarily he that strikes the first blow or fires the first gun."

From Davis's point of view, to permit the strengthening of Sumter, even if done in a peaceable manner, was unacceptable. It meant the continued presence of a hostile threat to Charleston. Further, although the ostensible purpose of the expedition was to resupply, not reinforce the fort, the Confederacy had no guarantee that Lincoln would abide by his word. And even if he restricted his actions to resupply in this case, what was to prevent him from attempting to reinforce the fort in the future? Thus, the attack on Sumter was a measure of "defense." To have acquiesced in the fort's relief, even at the risk of firing the first shot, "would have been as unwise as it would be to hesitate to strike down the arm of the assailant, who levels a deadly weapon at one's breast, until he has actually fired."

In the twentieth century, this critical view of Lincoln's actions gained a wide audience through the writings of Charles W. Ramsdell and others. According to Ramsdell, the situation at Sumter presented Lincoln with a series of dilemmas. If he took action to maintain the fort, he would lose the border South and a large segment of northern opinion which wanted to conciliate the South. If he abandoned the fort, he jeopardized the Union by legitimizing the Confederacy. Lincoln also hazarded losing the support of a substantial portion of his own Republican Party, and risked appearing a weak and ineffective leader.

Lincoln could escape these predicaments, however, if he could induce southerners to attack Sumter, "to assume the aggressive and thus put themselves in the wrong in the eyes of the North and of the world." By sending a relief expedition, ostensibly to provide bread to a hungry garrison, Lincoln turned the tables on the Confederates, forcing them to choose whether to permit the fort to be strengthened, or to act as the aggressor. By this "astute strategy," Lincoln maneuvered the South into firing the first shot.

Two sides, one story, and a lot of ignored history.

A good sight to check out if you're really interested in the other side http://www.tulane.edu/~sumter/index.html

All the best,

JT
Jim Thompson

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2005, 01:13:09 PM »
Jim

There is no doubt that Lincoln was caught between a rock and a hard place.  I can only guess as to whether his intention was to provoke the south into aggression by provisioning Sumpter.  I do, however, believe that he knew war would be the result of trying to reprovision Sumpter.  Lincoln preferred war to secession.  I suspect the diaries of Hay and/or Nicolay may shed more light on the subject.  

Given Lincoln's position as president, I believe he made the right choice.  Just as Jefferson made the right choice in pursuing The Louisiana Purchase.  Neither act was supported by Constitiutional Law, but the country as whole has proven to benefit immensely by the acts of these two presidents.  

Regardless of intentions and outcomes, surely we can agree that naming a golf club in S.C. Secession is in poor taste given one of the main reasons for the secession of the south was the right to enslave people.  

Thanks for the site address.  I am certainly interested in discovering the truth.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

ForkaB

Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2005, 02:17:36 PM »
Jim and Sean

Many thanks for your very educational, well written and refreshingly civilised posts, on a topic which inspires in some a passion even greater than GCA!

Rich

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2005, 02:37:17 PM »
Banana Hammock Golf Club

(actually it doesn't yet exist, but if and when I start a club this will be the name)

I'm assuming you will have a strict dress code.... ;)

I've always liked BURNING TREE.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2005, 02:40:47 PM by JSlonis »

ChasLawler

Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2005, 02:54:58 PM »
Keeping in tune with the possible offensiveness of the name "Secession", I've always thought "Wade Hampton" had a nice ring to it.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I assume it's named after the former plantation and slave owner, and Lieutenant General of the Confederate Army.

Mr. Hampton certainly went on to distinguish himself after the war as well...as Governor (and later Senator) of South Carolina, and was a key figure in SC's recovery from reconstruction; but after the hoopla surrounding the name of “Secession”, it surprises me that some sensitive Yankees don't take offense to the naming of “Wade Hampton” as well.



Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2005, 02:56:44 PM »
Cabell

Sorry, you will not draw me into this one! Ha.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

james soper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2005, 03:41:20 PM »
hole in the wall club
adios
medalist
old marsh
old memorial
national golf links
northland
burning tree


Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best Name for a Golf Course
« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2005, 04:19:16 PM »
Sean,

IMO - Secession is not an ill suited or negative term nor is the Stars & Bars.  They are representations of heritage and history whose negative value is conjured only in the minds of those who see them as such.  I certainly understand you position and its origins.  I simply disagree.

Now don't tell me you want to argue the legitimacy of the Catholic Church and the Papacy to grant titles with a Wisconsin Synod Lutheran who’s part Indian by bringing the Louisiana Purchase into this!  :D

All in good fun!

JT

P.S.  To my knowledge I have no relations from anywhere south of Cleveland, Ohio.  Thus, I am to the core a Yankee (a Jon Cheese to our non Dutch speaking friends).
« Last Edit: May 23, 2005, 04:49:56 PM by Jim Thompson »
Jim Thompson