Can't believe this statistic

[Chris_Clouser]

I was just looking at the scoreboard for the Colonial and noticed that DJ Trahan was leading.  Well on PGAtour.com they also post some stats on the player for the week that is leading.  

Here were DJs stats.

Putts per GIR:  1.5 (1st)
GIR:  72.2 (T16th)
Driving Distance :  307.5 (T30th)  

How in the world can anyone say there isn't something wrong with the distances these guys are hitting it when 307 yards is a tie for 30th during the week?

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Go DJ, an Upstate SC boy!!!!

You are right on the distances, though.

[George Pazin]

I tried to figure out who was leading and what his distance was, but the highest player I found was 9th and averaging just over 320. I think it was Sabbatini.

[Craig Sweet]

Scott Hend...339 yards.

I LOVE the distance thing! I LOVE fast computers too!

[Tyler Kearns]

Why don't they water the fairways at night? I mean really soak it up. Firm and fast accentuates the technology problem.

TK

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chris,

When you consider that the last members of the "flat earth society" disbanded in 1947 or 1949 when a rocket shot into space photoed the earth from a great height and revealed it as a globe, the abandonment of distance denial will only come when 4th graders are driving the 15th green at ANGC, which should be in May of 2007.

Tyler Kearns,

You've got it mixed up.
These fellows carry the ball great distances, hence,
firm and fast conditions counter the distance problem, whereas soggy conditions favor it, provided that the LZ's haven't had their contours and pitch removed.

[TEPaul]

Something wrong with driving distance??? What are you talking about? You guys are nothing but a bunch of Chicken Littles! That little squirt Bobby Jones hit drives over 300 with regularity and he even did it with pants that only came down to his kness, and with a necktie on!

[Chris Perry]

What difference does it make if pros are hitting balls that far using equipment that most mere mortals who play the game well can only hit 250-280 yards?

It entices the public to go out and buy the clubs the pro's use (and pay a fistful of $$$ to get them) to get closer to hitting and "playing" like they do, which is what pro sport is all about these days anyways... commerce.

The distance problem is only a "pro" issue. I'm sure I'll still be hitting 3 woods into par 5's after a good drive from the blue tees no matter where technology goes, and I can belt a few out there.

[Mike_Young]

I think most tour players will say they lose a few yards on their home courses due to a higher height of cut than they see on tournament fairways....sure they carry the ball much further and yes the ball does go further but short bermuda fairways will increase distance even further. IMO  So tour can average from 290 to 310 any given week based on the site.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chris Perry,

I play with a fellow, aged 53, who carries it 300.

Today's equipment allows golfers to swing much harder/faster at the ball.

Let me put a Power Built shallow faced driver in their hands and see how they play.

Though high tech, Clubs and balls make for straighter shots, which allows golfers to swing harder.

Throttle back the ball and size of the clubhead and guys on Medicare will no longer be able to carry hazards Gene Littler, Ben Hogan and others couldn't come close to in their best days.

[Tyler Kearns]

Craig,

He bumped his average up to 344.3 yds after the completion of the third round today. Non Par-3 holes must now exceed 485 yds in calm conditions to force Mr. Hend to hit a 9-iron . Pretty scary.

Patrick,

I agree that firm and fast conditions force players to be more accurate because balls will tend to run through fairways and into the rough. And ultimately, accuracy should be valued above all. However, firm and fast WILL yield longer drives and even more wedges into greens, regardless of how far these players can carry the ball.

TK

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tyler,

One of the problems is that courses make special preparations for balls that come into the newly defined LZ's by grading them to be perfect zones rather than making the uncomfortable zones, vis a vis awkward lies and stances, or redirects.

One of the great examples of a high risk LZ is the 15th at NGLA.

[Chris Perry]

Patrick, the guys that I play with that are that age can barely hit it 200-250 off the tee. They call ME the bomber and I don't hit it nearly as far as your mate.

What kind of 'roids is he taking?   Regardless of what equipment a player is using, he's not going to carry a ball 300 yards unless he he has a CHS of 100+mph and makes perfect contact with no sidespin. Most weekend warriors can't do that, (or only once in a blue moon) so it's a moot point.

The point was, even with advancements you won't see the average player even attempting to play from the tips on championship courses much less turning them into pitch and putts from back there. It's still a pro issue only.

The funny thing is,  as a 15 index hacker, I get told NOT to play from the blacks because of some crazy rule courses implement to avoid slow play, yet if I play from the blues or whites, on most holes bunkers and such aren't even in play for me anymore, and it's too easy for me to hit through dog-legs, go figure.

[texsport]

Rule of Thumb

Swingspeed X 2.5=Approximate Carry Distance(flush contact or perfect "smash factor")

300 yd. carry = 120 mph.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chris,

Patrick, the guys that I play with that are that age can barely hit it 200-250 off the tee. They call ME the bomber and I don't hit it nearly as far as your mate.

That's an interesting comment.
There was a time when a 250 yard drive was a real blast, Nicklausian, now, it's pooh poohed as mediocre or poor.[/color]

What kind of 'roids is he taking?   Regardless of what equipment a player is using, he's not going to carry a ball 300 yards unless he he has a CHS of 100+mph and makes perfect contact with no sidespin. Most weekend warriors can't do that, (or only once in a blue moon) so it's a moot point.
He did have his swing speed measured when he was being fitted, and while it was over 100, it wasn't as high as I would have imagined.[/color]

The point was, even with advancements you won't see the average player even attempting to play from the tips on championship courses much less turning them into pitch and putts from back there. It's still a pro issue only.
What were the tips 40-50 years ago are probably the members tees today.  Up until a very short time ago I played two courses in Florida from the tips every time I teed it up.
They were both over 7,200 yards.  40 years ago, I wouldn't have dreamed of playing from that distance.[/color]

The funny thing is,  as a 15 index hacker, I get told NOT to play from the blacks because of some crazy rule courses implement to avoid slow play, yet if I play from the blues or whites, on most holes bunkers and such aren't even in play for me anymore, and it's too easy for me to hit through dog-legs, go figure.

It's one of the dilemas that architects face.
How can they design a golf course that's both fun and challenging for all golfers when high handicappers are bombing the ball untold distances, distances that they couldn't come within 50 yards of 40 years ago ?[/color]

[Chris Perry]

From watching some shells WWOG, I'm pretty sure Jack blasted those 6 screw MacGregors close to 300 in his prime.

And depending on the hole setup (and the tees played) a 250 yard drive can often be position A.

I can only hope I'm in that good a shape when I'm over 50.

I can remember playing two courses from over 7,000 yards. I haven't since and I doubt I'll make a habit of it anytime soon, new equipment or not.

"It's one of the dilemas that architects face.
How can they design a golf course that's both fun and challenging for all golfers when high handicappers are bombing the ball untold distances, distances that they couldn't come within 50 yards of 40 years ago?"

I think the simple answer is, most aren't. I don't know the figures, but I think it's a safe guess that 90% of the recreational players out there do not have a CHS over 90, and do not hit it flush and square everytime.

Architects know there is a large descrepancy as to what people hit out there in general now, I think that's why they make courses with 4 sets of tees.

[JSlonis]

The announcer's mentioned yesterday that some players were getting 70 to 80 yards of roll on some drives.  If a guy hits the fairway...how in the world will distances not increase if this is the case?  Most of the guys on this board will not have the luxury of super fast fairways on any course they play all year.  

Yes, the tour players are very long, but when a player such as Kenny Perry hits a long drive that lands 280-290 and then rolls out to 350...it's not all the golf ball's fault.

For those who are always calling for firm and fast conditions, yet complain about the total distance these guys are hitting the ball...you can't have it both ways!

I watch some of the PGA tour telecasts every week, and I'm constantly amazed at how high the ball bounces after hitting the fairway and how far it subsequently rolls.  It's ridiculous,  even an average player, given those conditions, would be 20-30 yards longer than normal.

[Bob_Huntley]

2005

Scott Hend 335 yards. Is it really that long?

1933

Craig Wood hits a 430 yard (393 m) drive at the Old Course's fifth hole in the British Open, this is still the longest drive in a major championship.

1974

Mike Austin hits a 515 yard (471 m) drive at the 1974 National Seniors Open in Las Vegas, Nev., the longest drive ever recorded in competition.

Tom Weiskopf strikes a 420 yard (384 m) drive in the greenside bunker on the 10th hole at Augusta National - the longest drive in Masters history.

[Sean_A]

J Slonis

Many people are bemoaning the length of carry these days.  This length makes it very difficult on designers.  Should there be a "set" of hazards every 40 yards starting at 225 out?  We are now talking about five "sets" of hazards if one includes greenside hazards for a 400 yard hole.  This type of designing would be very expensive indeed!

I think fast conditions make it more difficult for all to judge pace and therefore distance control.  Courses should be set up so that coming from the rough of say 3 inches, it should be very difficult to hold a green.  A player should need to look for alleys to recover or play safer from the tee.  This is exactly what we saw at the Forest of Arden last week.  Though I don't think the course is brilliant, I think the set up made for good viewing.  

Ciao

Sean

[texsport]

It's all about the carry distances. The longest hitting PGA players can now carry the ball over hazards 300 yds off the tees and can carry 5 iron shots 210-220 yds.

For those players, any hole under 550 yds is now a driver and an iron.

If holding down scores is the goal, then penalizing rough and rock-hard, lightening fast greens are the only defenses.

Should there be concern about holding down scores?

(Note: With rock hard greens, those 220 yd 5 irons go 240 yds)

[PThomas]

perhaps it's time to bring back the cross-bunker!

[john_stiles]

I believe it.  Go to any college, USGA Boys, or professional event.

Hey,  6950 yard golf courses are being lengthened for PGA Senior events.  The same course should probably be lengthened for college and USGA qualifying event.

Other courses are being lengthened for college events.

Your grandson will tire of hitting PW and move on to another 'longer' course.   Or, they might move into another sport if golf is merely mashing a drive and hitting a PW.

Players at the club are hitting 5 irons 215.  Players at the club are hitting 300 yard drives.   The effect is trickling down.

I've read of some of the shots mentioned here but those were relatively rare.  It isn't that way anymore.  See the stats mentioned.