Is the Biarritz dead?

[Mike_Golden]

To add to Ace McBride's story, there's also a Biarritz green on a par 4, #18, at Foley,Alabama's Glenlakes course as well as a really good, elevated Redan on a par 5 on the front.  Designers were Von Hagge and Bruce Devlin

[Mike Benham]

To add to Ace McBride's story, there's also a Biarritz green on a par 4, #18, at Foley,Alabama's Glenlakes course as well as a really good, elevated Redan on a par 5 on the front.  Designers were Von Hagge and Bruce Devlin

Identity theft on GCA?

[Mike_Golden]

Mike,it's a special guest appearance, read the thread I just started

[Jason Mandel]

Bobby Weed also built a Biarritz style green at White Manor #10.  Its a par 4.

Jason

[Patrick_Mucci]

For those that have cited their Biarritz's, what's the height differential between the bottom of the trough and the upper putting surfaces ?

In addition, what's the height differential between the bottom of the flanking bunkers and the tops of the putting surfaces ?

Are they true Biarritz's or Faux, Pseudo or hybrid versions ?

[Top100Guru]

Pat;

About 4 feet at Mountain Lake's Biarritz 5th hole.........the bunkers are also at or near the level of the "trough" as you call it........greens also slopes slightly front to back. Literally a 3-4 club deep green.......

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

Is their any elevation differential between the front and back putting plateaus ?

[Top100Guru]

if you take into account the slope from front to back, it may be 18 inches higher at the back of the green than it is at the front......

[JNC Lyon]

Cobblestone Creek in Rochester has not one but two Biarritz holes. Camp Creek in Florida has an angled Biarritz at the 16th hole.

[paul cowley]

...I would say that far from being dead , its probably seeing its greatest resurgence since the golden agers went away.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jeff,

Is their any elevation differential between the front and back putting plateaus ?

My version has about a four foot swale from the front deck, and about five from the back. The back is a little higher to facilitate vision to the swale so you know what ya got there.

[A.G._Crockett]

I believe there is a green at Kinderlou Forest that would qualify, though I cannot remember the hole number.

[Andy Doyle]

Kinderlou Forest #16
436 yards, par 4
I'd say the trough in the green is between 2-3 feet deep



AD

[A.G._Crockett]

Thanks for posting the picture, Andy.  I didn't take any, and couldn't find this on the course website.  Very cool green!

[Lester George]

Allan,

The Biarritz is not dead!  I recreated an original one by Banks at Cavalier Golf & Yacht Club.  Built a new one at Salisbury Country Club here in Richmond.  I am going to restore an original MacDonald/Raynor at the Old White at the Greenbrier next year (final phase).  I have a new one on my drawing board now.  

When it fits, and there is an opportunity, I like the strategy and look.  It's a refreshing change sometimes for players to experience something differnt.  When we get the chance, we consider all possibilities.  

Lester

ps I'll e-mail Scott a picture of the Cavalier green, maybe he'll post it here....Scott, little help?

[Andy Doyle]

AG:

Yes, cool green and cool hole.  The longer you can drive your ball up the right side, the more your approach shot (a mid-to short iron) looks down at the green and looks straight down the green rather than at an angle.

BTW, this course opened a little over a year ago, so I'd say the answer to the thread's title question is no.

AD

[Scott_Burroughs]

Here's the restored 5th at Cavalier Golf & Yacht Club in Va. Beach:

[Allan Long]

Lester,

Always glad to hear an architect thinks the Biarritz still has merit.

Rest of the gang,

Thanks for the input. That's why this site is the greatest--the education never stops.

[Bryan Izatt]

Yet one more belated Biarritz green - the 5th at St Andrews Valley in Aurora, Ontario, designed by Rene Muylaert in 1990.  The green is in the width from the normal approach angle.



Here's a look up the length of the green.  The swale is 2 to 3 feet deep and around 12 to 15 feet wide.  The green also generally slopes from back right to front left.  The bunkers are 3 to 4 feet deep.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I just remembered that the par 5 15th at the highly rated Glen Mills GC by Bobby Weed has a Biarritz green.

www.glenmillsgolf.com

[Jason Topp]

Another Bobby Weed Biarritz



Stoneridge - Stillwater, MN, #6 about 380 yds.  The dip is not real pronounced - 2 or 3 feet.  I cannot recall if the levels are of a different height.

[Mike_Cirba]

How about a REAL Biarritz, with enough of a swale to swallow a small child?  

Have you guys ever been to Yale, or seen the 16th green at North Berwick??

What are these wimpy things?  

[Dan Kelly]

Another Bobby Weed Biarritz



Stoneridge - Stillwater, MN, #6 about 380 yds.  The dip is not
real pronounced - 2 or 3 feet.  I cannot recall if the levels are
of a different height.

Man, that looks familiar! Where have I seen that picture
before?  

I just looked at that Glen Mills GC site -- and, looking at the
 routing and the "scorecard" -- was reminded of Stoneridge a
number of times.

A question for the Pennsylvanians: Is Glen Mills another
former quarry site?

I'd love to hear more about Glen Mills.

[Dan Kelly]

How about a REAL Biarritz, with enough of a swale
to swallow a small child?  

Have you guys ever been to Yale, or seen the 16th green at
North Berwick??

What are these wimpy things?  

Is the swale at Yale (which I haven't seen) as dramatic as
the one at North Berwick (which I have, though I could
hardly believe my eyes)?

Brauer's at Fortune Bay qualifies as a REAL Biarritz, I think
 -- and has, in fact, swallowed several small children.

Investigations are still under way.

[Mike_Cirba]

Is the swale at Yale (which I haven't seen) as dramatic as
the one at North Berwick (which I have, though I could
hardly believe my eyes)?

Brauer's at Fortune Bay qualifies as a REAL Biarritz, I think
 -- and has, in fact, swallowed several small children.

Investigations are still under way.

Dan,

It's pretty close, but I'd say NB is still the world leader in trough depth.