Dwarf blue combinations for fairways?

[Mike_DeVries]

Happy New Year!  

And a big congratulations to UM's rival, OSU, on putting down the Hurricanes in the Fiesta Bowl!  Go BIG TEN!!!!

I am looking for recommendations on dwarf blue varieties for fairways and roughs in a northern climate -- Marquette, MI, about 2 miles from Lake Superior, so a very short growing season.

Also, I would like to hear opinions on fescues to add to the mix -- use for a nurse grass and to blend into the outer (managed but unmaintained) rough mix.

Important considerations:
*Desire for an ability to get firm and fast conditions, particularly around the greens, so how short can we realistically cut the turf?
*Site has good soil but also areas that will be shallow, due to exposed rock outcroppings and bedrock.  What is the stress with regard to those factors?
*Quite a bit of elevation and undulation in many areas on the course, not unmowable but will be more severe than usual in many places.  Response to turf tire stress?  For 90%+, there will be golf carts on this course.
*Ideas of how to allow for a very good ground game into the greens while still keeping the same varieties?  Is that possible?  
*We would like to simplify the grassing regime so that the tees and greens are bent (L-93) and the rest of the mowed turf is one combination of varieties, thus making the grassing easier and allowing for wide fairways and even maintained rough of 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" -- gives everyone a chance at a play and leads to more strategy in setting up the play to a more advantageous angle or flatter portion of the fairway.
*Recommendations on seeding methods -- broadcast, brillion, hydroseed, etc. and any combination of the possibilities?
*Has anyone used Tsunami yet?

I hope some superintendents / architects might have some experience with the newer dwarfs and the problems / potentials of putting these grasses in?  Direct e-mails or calls to me at 231-933-9169 are also fine.

Thanks,

Mike

[Joe Hancock]

Mike,

We planted the fairways at The Rose with 4 different varieties of dwarf blues. I'm certain the growing season in Cadillac is longer than Marquette. I felt the playing surface was outstanding. We didn't use any fescues, only because I was confident(!) that I could grow in the blues without a nurse grass. You are familiar with the hilly terrain at The Rose, and I had one fairway we had to do some sodding on. I planted one fairway on Oct. 8th, a bit of a push, but it did well. Ag grade Triple 19 @ 1#/ mft2 every ten days really did well for the grow in. Once grown in on the sandy soils, it was maintained dry(to fight poa mostly) and the lies on the turf were fantastic at 5/8". The ball sits as if you turned a shop broom upside-down and put your ball on it. Also, the divots are much, much tougher than bentgrass. I may have the varieties in a file somewhere, but that was 10 years ago, so newer varieties are available. You have a good seed man located on Blair Townhall Rd., he'd be more than happy to do research for you!

Best of luck, and feel free to drop in any time you're down "south"!

Joe

[Mike_DeVries]

Joe,

Thanks for the info. -- I will call Tom and see what he is recommending now.  The varieties change so fast, sometimes minimally, but with a name change, that it is hard to keep up.

Did you grow the sod or get it from a supplier?  I am interested because how different were the varieties in the sod from your seeded areas?  And how did it ultimately grow in?  We are looking at erosion blankets or possibly hydroseeding (or hydromatting) over more severe parts.

Thanks again!

[Michael Stachowicz]

Some good dwarf blues include Midnight, Blacksburg, Washington, and Touchdown.

Futera Mat worked well as an ersoion mat for me.  If you have access to it Eco-Aegis wood fiber hydroseeding mix is the best mix in the world.   It looks like paper mache with seed in it when done and doesn't washout like paper based hydroseeding mix.

http://www.hydrograsstech.com/hopyard.php

[Joe Hancock]

MIke,

Another factor that seems to creep its way to the top of variety selection and NTEP ratings is "color". Who cares, as long as the varieties in your blend are reasonably consistent with each other? Some blues are very dark green, while some are apple green, not unlike poa trivialis (southern overseeded greens). Tom is aware of these types of considerations...and will go to great lengths to get you the characteristics you're after.

Thanks for posting,

Joe

[Mike_DeVries]

Michael,

Thanks for the tip on the Eco-Aegis wood fiber hydroseeding mix -- I haven't used that particular brand before and we will investigate.  I appreciate your input on the varieties, too.

Joe,

Yeah, color is one of those things that tend to dominate some ratings and is usually the last thing I am concerned about -- I actually like old poa/bent greens that get all the funky colors in them after the first hard frost in the fall!  Nothing like seeing the purples, reds, yellows and lime greens in there with some darker greens -- great character and Mother Nature at work!  The keys I always look at first are the playability of the turf, disease and wear tolerances, height of cut (ties into playability), and then the aesthetics of the grass and how to tie it into the other grasses.

Mike

[RJ_Daley]

Wild horse has a polystand of cultivars, Award, American and Midnight.  They cut it at 9/16ths.  But, the growing season and obviously the soil-sand structure is ideal.  But, they are amazing 'blue' fairways.

[Josh Mahar]

We do as Dick states have Midnight, Unique, America, and Liberator with 10% rye at Wild Horse and everyone LOVES it.  I wouldn't do rye again with it but live and learn, but check with your seed guy on varieties-he should know more about them than anyone.
Why are they suddenly "dwarf bluegrasses"??  Just a pet peeve of mine--they are not dwarf--just improved Kentucky bluegrass varities!!
I think fescue in with the bluegrasses at 20-30% would be all right in the blend.   Probably won't help that much as a nurse grass but depends on weather conditions-gives you some genetic variablility in the stand for a while but eventually will play a small role in the overal turf stand I feel.
You can go low with these varieties on good soils--don't be afraid to go lower than you might think possible or have been told!!  (with good soil!)
These varieties do not grow as well as the older varieties of blue during the spring and fall--they really kick in for us in the summer so that may be a consideration for you in Michigan.  Maybe some varieties are "happier" with the normal cool weather growing of yeateryears blues--check with NTEP or your seed guy.  Hope this helps

[RJ_Daley]

Hey Josh, did you have to mow the last few days!  Nice tee shirt weather out there, huh?

[Michael Stachowicz]

Josh,

Why wouldn't you use the rye again?

[Mike_DeVries]

Josh,

Thanks for the info. and congrats on the great conditioning at Wild Horse!  I played there last April and it was fantastic -- some of Marquette's soil is pure sand, really great stuff, and it is all ok but some of it is just thin because of the rock beneath it, although I have been very pleased with the cover we have seen so far.

Hope all is well on the Plains!

Mike