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Neal_Meagher

When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« on: May 04, 2005, 03:39:19 PM »
This one is for you rules mavens out there.  With the profileration of naturalistic and dunish courses (Pac Dunes, perhaps Sand Hills) how does one define exactly what is and isn't a bunker?

I realize that a pit of sand completely surrounded by turf is a simple one.  But what of this picture of the 14th at Kiawah's Ocean Course:



Is it just that it's ALL waste area and its ok to ground the club?  Or, for this excercise, let's say that you are transitioning from a formalized bunker at a green edge to a very natural area like, oh I don't know, maybe a sand dune.  Short of painting a line in the sand, what are the options?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2005, 03:40:35 PM by Neal_Meagher »
The purpose of art is to delight us; certain men and women (no smarter than you or I) whose art can delight us have been given dispensation from going out and fetching water and carrying wood. It's no more elaborate than that. - David Mamet

www.nealmeaghergolf.com

Bill_McBride

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2005, 03:45:43 PM »
Neal, another good example would be Talking Stick in Scottsdale, where Coore & Crenshaw skillfully blended the manmade bunkers into the desert areas.  In some cases the transition takes place within the outer edge of the bunker.  Yours is a very good question!  Usually it's pretty obvious if it's a waste bunker/area or bunker/hazard, but not in these cases.

John Foley

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2005, 04:21:50 PM »
Neal,

At The Ocean Course it was explained to us on the first tee that it was OK to ground your club everywhere. Nothing was distinguesed as sand trap vs waste area.

In Pine Valley considered the same or do they treat the bunkers different from the natural area's.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Jim Sweeney

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2005, 07:49:44 PM »
This questionis often ont that must be decided by the committee. For example, at the Mid Am at Sea Island last year, there were areas within some of the dunes that were raked and designated as bunkers, yet adjacent areas were unmaintained and were therefore "through the green." It was really pretty easy to differentiate between the two; however, if there had been a question, the walking rules official was there to make a decision.

In the absence of officials, I suppose the members of the group would have to reach an agreement, or the player could invoke 3-3.



"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

Eric Pevoto

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2005, 08:22:45 PM »
Strangely, Sand Barrens in NJ places wood pylons to denote hazard versus waste areas.  If your ball is past the pylon, your in the hazard; if not, it's "through the green."

What effect would it have if everything but water hazards were declared "through the green?"  You could remove loose impediments and take practice swings in bunkers.  Would it ease the pressure to maintain these areas?
There's no home cooking these days.  It's all microwave.Bill Kittleman

Golf doesn't work for those that don't know what golf can be...Mike Nuzzo

JohnV

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2005, 08:36:39 PM »
A few months ago, Tom Paul wondered about this and I wrote this but never published it anywhere.  I might have missed a few things, but I think it is pretty complete:

If Bunkers were not hazards

The rules of golf define a hazard as a bunker or a water hazard.  I thought I’d take a look through the Rules of Golf and try to get an idea of what the implications of that would be.

A bunker is defined as “a hazard consisting of a prepared area of ground often a hollow, from which turf or soil has been removed and replaced with sand or the like.”  Sand dunes are not generally considered as bunkers and are played as through the green.  If the current bunkers were considered through the green the rule book would get shorter and simpler, but would it be advantageous or disadvantageous to the player who finds himself in or near a bunker?

Let’s look at the various rules and what limitations they put on a player when his ball is in a bunker.

Addressing the ball

The definition of addressing the ball says you have addressed it in a hazard when you have taken your stance.  Through the green, you have not addressed it until you have taken your stance and grounded your club.  Since the bunker is now through the green, you would be able to ground your club and it would not be addressed until you had done that.

The ball

Rule 5 covers the ball.  One thing a player can always do is lift his ball to see if it has been cut.  There is no difference if the ball is in a bunker or through the green.  You can lift it, determine if it is damaged without cleaning it and replace it.

Practice

Rule 7 allow a player to make a practice swing at any time, but when you are in a bunker, you may not touch the sand.  If you are in a sandy area that is not marked as a bunker you can.  So, if bunker became “through the green” you could now take practice swings and touch the sand, as long as you weren’t improving the lie of your ball.

Identifying your ball

Under Rule 12, you are currently prohibited from lifting your ball for identification if it lies in a hazard.  But, Rule 15 says you are also exempt from playing a wrong ball from a hazard.  If a bunker were no longer a hazard, you would be allowed to lift the ball and clean it as necessary for identification, but you would also be liable for playing a wrong ball from the bunker.  This would eliminate the need for the equity decision 1-4/6.

Play the ball as it lies

Rule 13-4 is the most specific rule regarding bunkers.  The rule says  that before playing a shot at a ball in a hazard or dropping a ball in a hazard that has been lifted, you may not test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard.  You also may not touch the ground in the hazard with your hand or club and you may not touch or move a loose impediment lying in the hazard.  All these things would become allowed if the bunker was not a hazard.  One of the most important advantageous that a player would get is that you could knock down piles of sand behind your ball in your backswing, which you currently may not do.  Another advantage would be the opportunity to remove loose impediments in a bunker.  This leads to a possible debate about what is a loose impediment and what is sand or loose soil.  We saw an example of that this past year with Stewart Cink at Harbour Town where the area was deemed to not be a bunker and the crushed shell became loose impediments that he could move.

Ball at rest moved

Since the definition of when a ball is addressed would have change for the bunker, the timing of a penalty under Rule 18-2b would also change.

Lifting, Dropping, and Placing

Lifting a ball would be unchanged.  

Dropping would change, as it would not be required to drop in a bunker when taking relief from things like casual water, Ground Under Repair, obstructions and for unplayable lies.  Likewise, a dropped ball that rolls into a bunker would be in play as would one that rolls out of one.  Therefore a player who was taking relief from something like casual water in a bunker could now drop it in the grass next to the bunker if it was within the correct dropping area and whether it rolled into the bunker or stayed out, he would play it.  This might be a big advantage versus the current rule where you have to drop it in the bunker and hope it doesn’t plug.

Currently if a player is required to replace a ball in a bunker and the lie has been altered, he is required to re-create it as nearly as possible.  With the change, he would do the same thing as anywhere else through the green and place it in the nearest lie that is most similar within one club-length of the original lie.  Also, if the spot was not determinable he would be required to drop it as near as possible to where it lay, but the restriction on it being in the bunker would be removed.  When the ball fails to come to rest on the spot it was being placed, he could now go outside the bunker if required without penalty, removing the equity decision 20-3d/2.

Loose impediments

As stated above, it would now be allowed for the player remove loose impediments, but that would also mean that if a loose impediment is moved and it causes the ball to move there would be a one-stroke penalty and the ball would need to be replaced.

Obstructions and Abnormal Ground Conditions

The need for the special relief conditions in both of these rules for bunkers would be gone.  Therefore, the player would go the nearest point of complete relief that was through the green, whether it was in the bunker or not, and drop within one club length of this.  But, it would also mean that a player taking relief from one of these situations outside a bunker might find that his nearest point of relief was in the bunker.

The special situations for balls lost in these conditions in hazards would also be removed.

Also, a player taking relief from a wrong putting green might have to deal with a hazard the he currently wouldn’t.

Embedded Ball

Since the normal embedded ball rule in the rule book only covers balls in closely mown areas, it would be unchanged.  If the local rule found in Appendix I was in place, there would be no change is it explicitly prohibits relief for a ball embedded in sand.

Ball Unplayable

Rule 28 would eliminate all the wording about how to deal with options 28-b and c for a ball in a bunker.  The player could now drop anywhere allowed in the rule for areas through the green.

Conclusion

I believe that making bunkers a part of the area defined as through the green would simplify the rules of golf and in most cases give the player an advantage of the current rules.  The question to ask is, would it be too much of an advantage?  With the exception of the ability to knock down sand on the backswing and getting out a bunker at times for little or no cost, I think it wouldn’t be a big deal.

Brent Hutto

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2005, 09:22:39 PM »
Conclusion

I believe that making bunkers a part of the area defined as through the green would simplify the rules of golf and in most cases give the player an advantage of the current rules.  The question to ask is, would it be too much of an advantage?  With the exception of the ability to knock down sand on the backswing and getting out a bunker at times for little or no cost, I think it wouldn’t be a big deal.

Your analysis seems complete and I agree with the conclusion you draw from it. Unless there's some aspect of the Rules that you overlooked w.r.t. bunkers it seems we could easily do with treating bunkers as "through the green". So what they do at the Ocean Course and elsewhere wouldn't seem to be a major violation of the spirit of the Rules. [EDIT] Certainly treating areas built like bunkers as though they are sand dunes is a far cry from the "Savannah Rule" at Stevinson Ranch or the similar putative local rule at Cuscowilla instructing players to play the tall grass adjacent to all fairways as lateral hazards (except implicitly without the "evidence the ball is in the hazard" Rule).
« Last Edit: May 04, 2005, 09:26:09 PM by Brent Hutto »

Tom_Doak

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2005, 09:41:36 PM »
Does anyone here know when they made the rules different for when the ball was in a hazard, as far as not being able to ground the club or take a practice swing?

Was it simply to stop bunkers from becoming torn up by practice swings, in the days before they were commonly raked?

Some people say that a "prepared" bunker [regularly raked] should be a bunker, and "unprepared" sand should be a waste area, but there is no clear line at Sand Hills or Pacific Dunes.  I'd be fine with it if they were all "through the green".

JohnV

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2005, 10:16:09 PM »
Tom, the prohibition against touching sand etc goes way back.  According to Kenneth Chapman in his classic book "The Rules of the Green" the 1815 code of the Aberdeen golfers said:

Quote
In playing out of sand or loose ground, the player shall neither beat down nor draw away the sand or soil from the ball, nor shall the player through the green beat down or alter the ground about the ball before playing, under the penalty of one stroke."

The 1839 code of the Honourable Company said:
Quote
When the Ball is in sand, or in a hazard, the player must take care, in aiming at the ball, that he does not alter or improve its position.

The 1842 rule for St. Andrews golfers said:
Quote
When a ball lies in a bunker or sand, there shall be no impression made or sand removed by the club before or in playing.

I think this was done because it was too easy to improve the lie of the ball.

At Sea Island last year during the US Mid-Amateur, it was obvious what had been raked by the staff and what hadn't and where the transition was.  It was decided that the raked areas were bunkers and the unraked through the green and all the officials were instructed to interpret it that way for the players.

Neal_Meagher

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2005, 01:04:46 AM »
Very good comments all around.  I especially appreciate Mr. Vander Borght's missive on the subject.  In short, I hear that the following is accepted:

1.  All sand hazards are through the green, thus the club may be grounded.

2.  A delineation is made by posts, ala O.B. markers that define whether or not one is in the hazard proper or in a waste area.

3.  A delineation is made by raking (grooming) or not raking (not grooming) that defines whether or not one is in the hazard proper or in a waste area.

And finally, having not had the pleasure of visiting Sand Hills, would this definitely fall into the first category, all waste bunker:

The purpose of art is to delight us; certain men and women (no smarter than you or I) whose art can delight us have been given dispensation from going out and fetching water and carrying wood. It's no more elaborate than that. - David Mamet

www.nealmeaghergolf.com

James Bennett

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2005, 02:00:34 AM »
I like John VB's simplicity regarding bunkers as through the green.  Of course, sand is only a loose impediment on the green, it cannot be removed from the surrounds of a green, nor 'through the green'.  And, you can't 'improve your lie' is a general principle of the rules of golf from day one, whenever that was..
« Last Edit: May 05, 2005, 02:01:45 AM by James Bennett »
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2005, 11:07:46 AM »
I was told by a USGA official that if one of their events came to The Ocean Course, in addition to the 17 or so bunkers on the course (those completely surrounded by maintained turf, the transition areas aound the greens would be considered "bunkers" where there would be no ground of clubs.  How that area would be designated was not made clear... ???

Dave_Miller

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2005, 11:55:00 AM »
WHEN SAND IS A HAZARD .... AND WHEN IT ISN'T


Not a hazard when fairways divots are filled with sand in effect creating "mini bunkers" in many places. ;)
Best
Dave

Bob_Huntley

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2005, 02:40:21 PM »
Neal,

On Mike Strantz' Shore Course at MPCC, if the sand has a rake in it, it is a bunker. Without a rake it's a waste area.

Bob

Jim Thompson

Re:When sand is a hazard......and when it isn't
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2005, 03:25:27 PM »
If there is a rake in it, it is a bunker.

If no rake, it is waste.

If the operator puts rakes on the carts,  I hope you're a good negotiator! ;D

Cheers!

JT
Jim Thompson

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