It's days like this...

[PThomas]

in my case, none...cause I don't use one!

[Voytek Wilczak]

Voytek  -- this fellow Polishman -- my name used to be Thomaszeski and my mom is Gintkowski --wonders if you know the answer to this one, which one of my daughters asked me the other day:  are there any golf courses in Poland yet?  I believe as of a few years ago there weren't, but maybe now?

welcome to GCA!

pt

There we go - we're going to have a Polish chapter of GCA (shudder).

Anyway, the very first golf course in Poland was First Warsaw Country Club - a quite non-descript track built by Swedish investors on the banks of the Vistula River not far from Warsaw. It was built about 6-7 years ago. I played it twice-nothing to write home about. Since then several more courses have sprang up - most recently Modry Las - a Gary Player design!

I am sure that Poland and other Eastern European countries have absolutely magnificent sites for golf courses. There is plenty of hilly, sandy land in Poland with hardwood trees and old castles for clubhouses - if only there were enough golfers!

[Voytek Wilczak]

How many Polish golfers does it take to use a cheater line?

I knew it was coming....  

[PThomas]

and think of the food we can have in our clubhouse when we build our course there Voytek:  pierogies, Polish sausage, and plenty of Vodka.....

[Voytek Wilczak]

and think of the food we can have in our clubhouse when we build our course there Voytek:  pierogies, Polish sausage, and plenty of Vodka.....

Maybe we can get Tom Doak to design one there... I don't even want to start thinking of the name...

But there would be plenty of kielbasy, vodka (forget Scotch), and wild boar on the menu.

[Alex Chehansky]

If they served pierogies and jolopche (sp?) on the first and tenth tee, I would never leave the course!!!

[Patrick_Mucci]

While JakaB's approach to architecture appears to be tangential, at least he created posts that could be deemed thought provoking, some on target, others no more off target then many of the OT subjects frequently posted on this site.

Before anyone calls JakaB a jester, or any other names, perhaps they should, at the very least, replace his criticized efforts, by posting interesting threads of their own.

The dismal response to the "an idea" thread, and Robert Hunter's, "The Links" makes me wonder if anyone is seriously interested in golf course architecture.

And, if you claim that you are, how do you manifest that serious interest on this site ?

[Lou_Duran]

Beginning with Voytek's 19th post, I am sure that threads like this one will open the flood gates to architect participation on this site.  Now that Golden, Childs, and Kavanaugh are gone, Nicklaus, Fazio, and Dye are poised to fill the void.

Surely, Tom Doak will be posting regularly on modern minimalist applications of treasured principles from the classical era.  And from time to time he may even share with us his considerable breadth of expertise into some subject matters as politics and economics.

shivas, the answer to your question is pi (3.1416) * the # of Aggies required to decipher the meaning of a cheater line.

Dr. Klein, I was unaware that your academic background is in psychology.  Some of us are not so much enabled as tolerated.  BarneyF is full of it.  Most of us are, though a fewer number realize it.

On this site, we delve primarily in opinions and preferences.   Of course, some of these are better than others.  Those reflecting my own get very high marks.  But, from time to time, even guys like Moriarty, Naccarato, and Ferguson write something that is worthy of a second look.  In the end, like with so many other things, our time here is more entertainment than something terribly cerebral and of major consequence.

I am priviliged to have played golf with Geoffrey Childs, Mike Golden, and John Kavanaugh.  These gentlemen have different backgrounds, interests, and personalities, yet they provide valuable, diverse perspectives.  I will personally miss them if they stay away from gca.com, and I believe that the site will be the lesser for it.  Paraphrasing the somewhat troubled peacemaker from CA, "Why can't we all just learn to get along"?  

 

[Voytek Wilczak]

And, if you claim that you are, how do you manifest that serious interest on this site ?

As a noob, I just absorb, trying to understand why certain courses fill me with awe and other leave me cold.

The line betwen provoking thought and trolling is very thin - and I am very tired of the latter.

This site is a gem - full of intelligent, professional discourse and information. A rarity these days. It is not vigorously moderated for obvious reasons, so it's up to everyone to keep it clean.

[Buck Wolter]

I haven't seen Mike's name turn into a guest, now that JakaB's gone will you be staying?

Voytek-
Who cares what you think? Take a look at your posts on this thread and ask yourself if they have contributed anything to the site.

[Michael Moore]

Before anyone calls JakaB a jester, or any other names, perhaps they should, at the very least, replace his criticized efforts, by posting interesting threads of their own.

Pat -

I am surprised that you are unable to differentiate between calling someone a name and describing his role.

[Doug Sobieski]

Voytek:

Dzien dobry. Milo mi.

Unfortunately, I only recognize a few basic phrases that I heard growing up!!! And I always impress my daughter that I can count to ten in Polish  

Do zobaczenia,

Doug

[mike_malone]

 Why is  it so hard to just ignore what you don't like? Is it like looking at a car wreck? Most "bad" topics die from the lack of participation. So, let them go.

     I think the off topic discussions are "community building". Serious discussion of any topic can get tiresome.
   

    So, I suggest we lighten up and be grateful that we have a place to go "where people know our names".

[Ted Kramer]

Count me in with the Polish contingent . . .
and count me in as someone who already misses Dr. Childs and will miss JakaB. . .

-Ted

[THuckaby2]

Gents:

I miss Dr. Childs also.  I will sure as hell miss JakaB if he doesn't post in here.

Thus it was very nice to hear his voice yesterday, when he called me to discuss my recollection of our round at Shinnecock, mentioned in here on another thread.

Just because they don't post doesn't mean they're gone.... nor that they cease to exist....

 

[PThomas]

good morning all  

(many happy faces to lighten these dark clouds!)

all these fellow Poles....what a beautiful thing....

but I'd buy all my gca friends a zm new pivo anytime

I second the wise words of Mr. Malone (and others as well)

count your blessings and have a great day

pt

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm half Slovak...that has to account for something while I eat my cabbage and noodles.  

[Voytek Wilczak]

Take a look at your posts on this thread and ask yourself if they have contributed anything to the site.

I did. I just created a Polish contingent. Don't know if it is good or bad, though

[PThomas]

you're a good guy and your Slovak-ness is close enough, so I think you're in Mike!

stuffed cabbage is another fine Polish dish, by the way

[George Pazin]

I'm half Slovak...that has to account for something while I eat my cabbage and noodles.  

Only if you use it's proper Slavic name, halushki.

One of my fondest memories of my maternal Grandmother was when one of my uncles was showing off to a Penn State professor, telling him all these different names for a certain well known food mentioned by Paul Thomas. He gave the Slavic word, the Romanian word, the Polish word, etc., till my Grandmother - not at all known for sarcasm - deadpanned, "It's just stuffed cabbage."

[RJ_Daley]

Gents, after bering away a week playing real golf on the prairie and plains of our great land, enjoying unique and creative golf course architecture on two seriously significant courses, I come back to this purgative thread of emotionalism.  Proclamations from a variety of perspectives, all of which hold some merrit in their varying points of view IMO, have been expressed about the worth and validity of diverse participants postings.  Darn, I hate to be equivacal, but all I can determine from reading the points and counter points, challenges and accusations, answers and defenses, etc., is that we have some very smart people on this site, and they should all bask in the freedom to speak their minds, and protect that right and the place they have found to express themselves.

To be more blunt, they say it is an old Italian expression (although the Poles must have their corresponding maxim), "dont shit where you eat!"  Non si fare cacca dove si mangia...

Lastly, it is a sad coincidence or bad karma or something that I find a situation where three people I have come to know and appreciate for their unique intelligence, through this site and it's predecessor, Golden, Geoff, and John have come to loggerheads and all three get frustrated and leave or threaten to do so.  

John, as I think someone has said above in so many words, their is a thin line between provocative proclamations, court jestering, and devils advocate (call it what you will) and going too far.  I have at times been exasperated by certain things you say and how you say them.  Yet, I try to be patient and see if any good or iteresting thought springs forth from some of your original firebrand posts.  Sometimes, I find you do have an obscure point, and it becomes a point of learning something new or thinking about something in a different way, and sometimes...well it is just another dead end.  

Is it too naive to hope that you all three will reconsider, and take a little more care with the flame throwers, so that the real value of the site is not overshadowed?  But, what would we have here without flirting with the line of barbs, witicism and critical satire once in a while?  Just a stale old treatise on GCA.  Hell, I could read Fred G. Hawtree if I wanted that!

If you respond to my thoughts and expect a reply, you'll have to wait... it is the first day of Men's club here on the frozen tundra!

[John_Cullum]

I talked to a number of Golf course architects at the last meeting who read the site. Why don't they post? "because the site is full of guys who already think they know it all".

My instincts tell me it wasn't John Kavanaugh they were referring to. More often than not, JakaB is speaking for those architects, calling this groups armchair architects to answer for their total ignorance of what it takes to build a good golf course.

Without JakaB's poignant wit, this discussion group becomes much less interesting. I don't think we'll see JakaB back. When John Kavanaugh says he's going to take a course of action, he follows through. This reminds me of the night our 14 year old cat disappeared. We hoped beyond all hope she would show up, but I knew deep down, we would never see her again.

[Steve Okula]

I also am pure bred Polish, mother's maiden name is Rajewicz, all four grandparents born in the old country.

And, I hate pierogies, go figure.

[redanman]

I'm half Slovak...

Just for the record, so am I.

and the other half is Polish  

[Pete Lavallee]

Looks like we have more Polish than lefties here; half guilty as well!

Yesterday was indeed a black day.