GolfClubAtlas.com > Golf Course Architecture
The Time Between Shot And Result Is The Key
ForkaB:
George
I've always thought that PV's challenges were in hitting your drive to position A on relatively flat fairways, and getting your line and length right on your approach to relatively small greens. If there is more movement out there than I have surmised form others' accounts (I am a virgin :'() then I am wrong, and very, very sorry.....
Cheers
Rich
JESII:
For me, wind is a key ingredient to this anticipation. I agree that it goes without saying that firm conditions are required to maximize the 'time' of a shot, and when you have both, on a links course for example, you're in for a real treat.
One of the purest pleasures of the game for me is seeing a ball travel along the ground for an extended period only to stop close to the intended target.
John Kirk:
I have not played either Cypress Point or Pine Valley. My architecture education is incomplete to say the least. Based on remarks here, sounds like Pine Valley is moderately firm, but Cypress is quite soft year round. Both courses look stunningly beautiful, and both offer good playing options. Cypress has wind to contend with. PV is coveted for its great green complexes, among other things.
But I regularly tell people I can't imagine that golf at Pebble Beach is as exciting as playing in Bandon, because of the firm turf. Let's imagine you've hit a nice iron down into the landing area on #4 Bandon Dunes. You've got 150 yards downhill, and the wind is crossing at 15-20 miles per hour. From experience I know it's only a little pitching wedge, and I start it out about 5-10 yards right of the green. Bounce, bounce, bounce, roll. That's exciting to me.
By the way, Rich, I have played Dornoch once or twice. It was a "Eureka!" moment in my golf life. What a place.
The Masters is consistently one of the best tournaments each year, because we ge these wonderful shots that take forever to come to rest. I expect Pinehurst (haven't played there either) to deliver another great US Open this year.
Mr. Keller,
I think you're right. How can you tell if it's fun to play, unless you play it? There are certainly visual and tactile signals, but nothing replaces playing the shots.
George Pazin:
--- Quote from: john_kirk on May 02, 2005, 11:55:31 AM ---Fast greens allow for longer duration putts. Let's take putts with equal initial velocity on a slow green and a fast one. The fast green offers less resistance to the ball, and the ball rolls longer in distance and time. I'm trying to explain this soemhow...trust me, fast greens make for longer putts timewise.
--- End quote ---
I think the key to your statement is how fast putts slow down on slower greens. If you have 30 foot putts on different speed greens, you may have to charge one and trickle the other.
Rich -
I haven't had the pleasure, either. You may be right about the fairways, but I would think the greens compensate more than adequately. I recall more than a few hole descriptions from Tom P, Jamie, etc., where they described a somewhat circuitous approach to the hole.
I remember turning on The Golf Channel late one night and seeing a black and white golf course. They were on a par 3 green, and the contours were so bold that I immediately thought, that has to be PV. Sure enough, it was the Nelson v. Littler WWOG episode from back in the 50s. I strongly encourage everyone to watch it if it's on, or go buy the tape.
Ted Kramer:
John,
Great post. I agree with your thinking and I'm impressed with the fact that you were able to pin down that aspect of golf, I never would have been able to come up with your idea.
Bethpage Black #13.
After a solid drive I had about 240 to the green.
There is a very well designed bunker on #13 that can be confusing to someone who hasn't played the course enough times to remember that there is about 20 yards between this cross bunker and the green - it looks like a greenside bunker, but it isn't.
I figured I needed to fly the ball about 215 or so to clear the bunker and figured it was worth a shot. I hit a solid rescue club that I followed every inch of the way . . .I just couldn't tell if it had enough to clear the bunker. It turns out that the shot did clear the bunker and wound up on the green . . .
I hit that shot about 3 years ago. And it is one of the most memorable of my life . . . and until I read this post I'm not sure that I understood why. It wasn't because I hit the green in two, but now that I think about it, it is probably because I haven't hit many 240 yard shots that I had to watch for every second in order to figure out whether I was in good or bad shape . . .
Great post!
-Ted
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