[TEPaul]

and/or do you think he will be thought of as such some day?

If a contributor thinks he is tell us why.

[danielfaleman]

Troll.

[TEPaul]

danielfaleman;

Damn you to hell---that's pithy but it just may haunt you someday!  

[John Kirk]

I'll take a crack at this.

To me, genius implies extraordinary innate ability for the profession.  Tom is obviously smart, an Ivy League graduate (both my parents went to Cornell, too).  I believe he began his college education as a math or physics major.  A keen understanding of the physics of ball flight and roll would seem to be a valuable asset.  I have spoken to Tom briefly a couple of times.  Once, he said his job is to build a surface for the ball to bounce and roll on, and to understand how to make that enjoyable.  I can't remember the exact words.  In an eloquent way, he was reducing the game to a physical analysis of ball flight and roll.

With that said, I believe Tom's success can be mostly attributed to his exhaustive research of the subject.  He spent more time and effort studying golf courses than virtually anyone before him.  I am a firm believer that hard work precedes "genius".  Few people remember the Beatles spent 8 hours a night playing for peanuts in the red light district of Hamburg for three winters.

Enough.  I will cross paths with Tom a few more times, and I don't want to come across as an ass-kissing sycophant.  But I appreciate his effort.  With Pacific Dunes a half day's drive from here, and as a charter member of the Ballyneal project, I get to play a style of golf I was unfamiliar with a few years ago, a style of golf I consider superior to the parkland golf I am accustomed to.

[Matt Kardash]

who cares?

[Mike_Sweeney]

Tom,

There is alot of talent out there, and Doak is obviously producing some awesome golf on some awesome properties. However, your question could be expanded to "Is Tom Doak a golf architectural genius or a marketing genius or a combination of the two." At least half of the battle is getting great property, and Tom is obviously getting great property from developers.

Tom Doak may read this as a shot at him, but it really is not. It is a marketing world, and those that stand out in a competitive market deserve credit for separating themselves from the pack. Fortunately he also backs up the marketing with good to great design. There has to be some jealousy out there in the profession towards Tom Doak because of the properties that he is getting, but it appears that there was a fairly blank hole between leaving Pete Dye and his first few couple of courses where a only a few people read The Confidntial Guide. He toughed it out to get where he is today.

Tom Paul, If someone was crazy enough to give you Pacific Dunes-like property to try out some Paulian ideas, would you still post here in 5 years and take pot shots from some Cornell educated guy who has played National a few times so he thinks he gets it.  

[Brad Klein]

Doak is a thoughtful, hard working guy who loves architecture and has learned to work well with people who share that passion. He knows the business a lot better than a lot of people ever imagined. And unlike most architects, he can write well and photograph well.

Leave it at that and cut out the hype and idolatry.

[Adam_F_Collins]

I think that the best thing about Tom Doak is his willingness to share in the enjoyment of the subject - even with people as "unknown and unknowing" as myself.

Tom Doak may be a "design star" but the fact that he still takes the time to come on here and answer the same old questions from people like me shows a true and honest love for what he does.

Genius or not, that's a solid place to start.

I've never played a course he designed, but if he turns out to be "a genius", it couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

[TEPaul]

"Leave it at that and cut out the hype and idolatry."

Getouttatown Brad or you'll spoil all the fun!

[Brad Klein]

TEP,

you must have you heard, I've just converted from Jewish stand-up comedian to Presbyterian minister.

[Evan Fleisher]

TEP,

you must have you heard, I've just converted from Jewish stand-up comedian to Presbyterian ministe.r

Oy Vey!!!  

[Mike_Cirba]

Genius?  

Wouldn't it take one to know one, or to make that assessment, so to speak?

I would never be so presumptuous.

What I will say is that twice, quite memorably, I found myself on Tom Doak designed courses and as I surveyed a shot, caught myself smiling involuntarily.  It was the kind of wry but stimulated smile where one is thinking, "ahhh...I see what you're up to, you SOB!"

The first time was about 15 years ago on the 2nd hole of the Heathland course, when I didn't know Tom Doak from Adam, and I rounded the corner of the short par four and surveyed the dicey approach.

The second time was on the tee of the 11th hole at Beechtree.

Fun, thoughtful courses....that should be enough praise.

[A_Clay_Man]

I understand he has a real flaw in his genius, cart paths.

[TEPaul]

"TEP,
you must have you heard, I've just converted from Jewish stand-up comedian to Presbyterian minister."

You're killing me. Are you going to take some tips on that new schtick from John B. Kavanaugh?

[ChipRoyce]

Tom Doak for UN General Secretary!

World Peace and nice bunker flashing will reign supreme!

[TEPaul]

Do I think Tom Doak is a genius in golf architecture?

Well, whether I do or not I can't possibly offer any opinion on that unless and until Tom Doak does something first.

That something is he absolutely MUST add approximately a full 25-30 steps (yards=about 75 to 90 additional feet) onto the rear of the 13th green at Pacific Dunes.

I realize that would make the front to back greenspace on that hole up to 65-75 YARDS LONG!!! (you calculated right that would be about 195 to 225 feet in front to back length!!). A few of the Biarritzes with greenspace on either side of the swale are actually longer than that!  

But here's why I suggest it. That hole is really awesome anyway and that additional space back there is just naturally awesome anyway---and it's crying out to be used for green space. If you just walk back there it gets narrower and you feel like you're near the end of the earth.

But what that would do is create one of the most awesome pinnable areas (or even a form of greenspace recovery area) for good players particularly to think about actually attacking when the seasonal prevailing wind is at their back and when the wind is into them (the other seasonal prevailing wind) that back section could create one of the coolest "half par" situations you ever heard off. In a sense it would be something like the awesome rear of PVGC's #1!!!!

All that would have to be done is just create the seed bed---there needs to no shaping at all back there---just the way it naturally is looks like natural greenspace anyway.

I don't want to hear anymore of these weak-assed excuses like it'd be too hard or not visible enough or some other deflecting excuse. This must be done before I can offer an opinion of whether or not Tom Doak is a genius.

Personally, I think he realizes this would be an awesome idea but he's being unnecessarily obdurate or pig-headedly stubborm maybe because I offered the suggestion or perhaps he's still in some timid mode with Pac Dunes, not willing to take the ultimate architectural cool risk because the course is called a resort course or some such claptrap. It doesn't matter---this must be done!

If it were done I will ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE that it will make this otherwise great hole take it's place as one of the coolest and most intensely challenging and enjoyable and respected ones in the entire world. Matter of fact, I will venture to say that even if golfer's balls do not go back there if the pin is not back there I think they'll be inspired to just go back there to feel what it's like---it's so cool back there.

This must be done and I don't want to wait another year for it. This hole is like some awesome Ferrari anyway but without that back 25-30 additional paces of greenspace back there the hole is like a sophisticated Ferrari that Enzo forgot to put the rear wheels on!!

This must be done and when it is I will offer my opinion on Tom Doak the genius golf architect!

[TEPaul]

"TEP
depends on your definition of "genius", I suppose"

redanman;

Who the hell do you think you are---David Moriarty??

Don't go there, Pal, it's foolish!

[JESII]

Do any of his courses offer a balanced cumulative shot value requirement , as this would clearly be the qualification.

[TEPaul]

Look you young whippersnapper, just because you won the Philadelphia Amateur, were the player of the year around here and played the Canadian tour what right does that give you to act like you are. I'm trying TO BE SERIOUS on here!

But I'll tell you one interesting thing about Pacific Dunes---it really does have a couple of the neatest "par skewing" holes I've ever seen depending on the seasonal prevailing wind---and the fact that they are shortish par 5 followed immediately by a longish par 4 makes them even cooler par skewers. I bet a whole bunch of good golfers probably get their pars mixed up.

[JESII]

But I'll tell you one interesting thing about Pacific Dunes---it really does have a couple of the neatest "par skewing" holes I've ever seen depending on the seasonal prevailing wind---and the fact that they are shortish par 5 followed immediately by a longish par 4 makes them even cooler par skewers. I bet a whole bunch of good golfers probably get their pars mixed up.

Can't wait to see it. Rare is the course that everyone that sees it absolutely raves about. Must be pretty cool.

[TEPaul]

"Can't wait to see it. Rare is the course that everyone that sees it absolutely raves about. Must be pretty cool."

It certainly is and one of the best things about it is Rich Goodale didn't think it was that good or didn't understand it. Anything that Rich Goodale doesn't think is very good is bound to be really sophisticated and world class.

[Dan Kelly]

I don't know if Tom Doak is a golf architectural genius (haven't yet had the pleasure of a Doak course), but if he has 150 copies of "The Confidential Guide" in his basement, and if he's kept them dry, then he's certifiably a Collectible Book Genius!

I have some copies of my books in the basement, too -- but I'm making sure to get them moldy and musty, lest they someday develop some value.

(I second whoever said: I don't know if he's a genius, but I sure do appreciate his willingness to speak at least some part of his mind here, and to answer questions from joyful ignoramuses such as I.)

[Yancey_Beamer]

"Genius is 99%prespiration and 1%inspiration"
Edison

This sums up my observations on Tom's life and work.

[Larry_Rodgers]

I have it from Tom's present and past design staff comments that Tom Doak is GENIUS, bordering on Rock Star Status. These people work and have worked side by side with Tom and all talk about how talented he is.

GCA members may see the results of his work but in my book, if a past member of the staff respects him that would have to rate an 11 on the Doak scale.

[John_McMillan]

Tom is certainly a very good architect.  

I'd have to know the difference between "very good" and "genius" in order to make a judgment.  

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