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Mark_F

Psychological Hole Pairings When Routing
« on: May 02, 2005, 01:09:07 AM »
Are there any particular combinations that work best when laying out various types of holes?

For instance, is a short - i.e. drivable- par four best followed by a very difficult hole, in order to perhaps 'force' an unwise gamble on the shorter hole?

Similarly, would a short par five best be followed, say, by a long and difficult three?  

If there are any particularly good combinations, what does it take for an architect to 'break up' such a pairing when routing?  

RT

Re:Psychological Hole Pairings When Routing
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2005, 02:18:21 AM »
Mark,

I think what works (don't know if 'best' is the word) is what the land and its intrinsic properties, subtilities, features, suggests as a sequence of holes.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Psychological Hole Pairings When Routing
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2005, 03:42:30 AM »
Mr. RT, :)

I was thinking of the same question before I read Mark's post, and its more or less what I'm addressing in Jeff Brauer's thread regarding routing.

If it was me, and I was given the directive to route 18 holes, 9 holes. 12 hole or 22, whatever--I would probably would look to walking the property first without a plan, just to get a feel for it. I would more then likely take a pad of paper and jot down the features I thought were interesting and then more or less draw my own idea of the property before even seeing a topo map or plan, just so I could see how close I could get it to actual dimensions. Lets face it, its more then likely going to be way off doing it this way, but I think it would still allow you to get a better fell for what is going on. This is why The Valley Club of Montecito makes such sense to me--and the same with Friar's Head. Both these courses are IMHO perfect examples of making a routing work off of features--not, "Hey, were just going to rip this down and put it back anyway we want."

For example: As convoluted as a property THE VCOM is or was when MacKenzie set out to do his thing, it looks as if he took a negative and made it a pretty cool positive. How can someone get something so perfectly right?  The routing is sheer perfection there!

To take it into the modern day, and I don't want to sound too Rah-Rah Bill Coore, but Friar's Head is another that most would have simply tried to have kept the course as much as possible near the water and in the dunes as much as possible. Instead, you have these transistions--brilliant transisitions. Then to continue with it all, are purely natural looking golf holes in what is widley viewed as flat, featureless farm field. Combine it with man-made fairway contours on those holes that look as if they were left over from water receeding from the last glacier that parked there. Its just brilliant stuff.

So, I guess my point is that it seems like it takes a lot of time to feelthe land and perfect it in your mind how a hole is going to work with-in the routing.

I know this stuff doesn't work when you have a housing project lining the fairways and land planning has established corridors of play--I would hate to have to build something like that which didn't accomplish the truest sense of purpose, "In search For The Very Best Golf."

Naive? Yes I know! But I would rather be naive to the world then not get it right.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 03:43:02 AM by Tommy_Naccarato »

TEPaul

Re:Psychological Hole Pairings When Routing
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2005, 05:40:46 AM »
One of the best back to back combos I've seen recently is the shortish par 5 3rd followed in the opposite direction by the long par 4 4th of Pacific Dunes. Depending on the prevailing wind one might think the pars are reversed. Par skewing at its best, in my opinion.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Psychological Hole Pairings When Routing
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2005, 01:59:02 PM »
Mark:

I am certainly aware of it when our routings have psychological effects on people ... and frequently I do find that we follow a short par-4 with a much tougher hole.  However, this is something of an accident, as all I am really trying to do is provide a variety of holes as part of the golf experience.

The Gunnamatta course has several shortish par-4's in a row [7-8-9], which most people would tell you not to do, but it's the best use of that stretch of land.  And then at the end of them you have to play the tenth and you really get that psychological effect you spoke of!

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Psychological Hole Pairings When Routing
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2005, 02:28:49 PM »
There's an example, perhaps, waiting at the Mines...

The 3rd, which I like to call the "Redheaded Stepchild" (mean, cantankerous) and the 4th, which I call the "Redhead"(seductive, irresistable, and a bit tempermental). The 3rd is a long-ish(450) par 4, back into the wind with a narrow opening to the green. The 4th is 315 or so, downwind and appears to be very reachable. However, the green is basically a peninsula, with sharp drop offs on the front, right and rear. Woe to the failed attempt....

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

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