[JESII]

THE FINAL ROUTING OF A GOLF COURSE

1) Are there any instances in which we can actually see two different final routings for one course? There is occassionally talk of an alternative routing for CPC (possibly Raynor) but the course was not built with that plan, so how could we possibly intelligently compare it with the final by MacKenzie?

2) How much does the routing matter in the finished product? I ask this assuming the course starts and finishes in relative proximity to the clubhouse for both options. I also assume all walks from green to tee would balance out for length and climb. The overall quality of the holes would also equal out.

3) How does someone analyze a courses routing?

[JESII]

There is occassionally mention of a courses routing being obvious, as though there were no plausible alternatives. I simply cannot understand this logic.

Do you start with one or two features you really want to utilize and build the course around it/them?

What role does the sequence of hole par (par 3's, 4's, 5's) play in a routing scheme?

I understand environmental issues are an increasing concern and frequently play much too large a role in today's routings. Does this add to or take away from the "genius" of what turns out to be a well routed golf course?

[Jeff_Brauer]

I don't know if CPC is as good an example as perhaps some old course that was documented before some other gca rerouted it completely as happened then and now.

Brad Klein said routing is destiny. I agree.  Two routings could very well equal out, but they don't necessarily have to.

Most gca types will provide multiple routings, and each will have some great features.  Most will also have both a numerical checklist and intuitive process for determining which is best.  Numerically, you can measure variety of approach shots, changes of wind direction, etc. and examples are in various books. However, I'll bet most architects settle on the final (if not dictated by some outside source) more intuitively.  

Perhaps its not wanting to give up one great hole (CPC 16th, for example) in order to get some type of balance on other holes, as it should be. After all, great courses are inevitably made up of great holes.

[JESII]

Shivas

I guess I am trying to identify what makes a good/great routing while keeping all other variables as even as possible. Maybe that's the point, the great routings find more/better features to utilize to their full potential. Maybe..

We can go back to the Seminole example.

There are but two primary features on that property, the dune line along the ocean, and the larger ridge line running through the opposite side. Due to the size of that property, I would have had no choice but to utilize both in some manner. Is there any reason to believe I would have created the course that exists today?

[TEPaul]

Sully:

On an interesting property regarding routing there are probably about a dozen ways to skin the cat just as well but most on here will never understand or admit that. They'll never understand either that it's possible to have virtually identical routings and two courses of 18 very different holes!  

[Bob_Huntley]

JES II

One of my favourite courses was the Nchanga Golf Club in what is now Zambia.

The routing was almost pre-ordained. Gigantic ant hills, large hardwood trees and the Nchanga Stream running through the middle of the property presented the builders with a course that was perfectly sited upon first inspection. No other routing would have come close to equal success.

As an aside, I can remember the grass on the back nine being planted by a couple of thousand African miners, who had to be paid whilst the White mineworkers were on strike.

[JESII]

Bob

Did the anthills, trees and the stream dictate more than simply the direction to follow? Did the par 3 locations stand out, or a particular run along the stream that would make for great par 5? Does that come into consideration when routing, or is that after the "track" is defined?

p.s. How cool is it to be able to pick someones brain about Nchanga Golf Club in Zambia? Awesome! Ignorant Joy .

[Mike_Cirba]

Frankly, I'm wondering how we can introduce giant anthills as a hazard on some of our American courses.

Bet you wouldn't hear much more bitching about unkempt bunkers...

[Bob_Huntley]

JES II,

It's funny you should ask that question. The par threes were exquisitely sited. One in particular was situated between two minor tributaries of the Nchanga Stream which merged into the main flow in front of the green. A slightly down hill shot of about a hundred and sixty yards to a gently sloping green. The ninth was an absolutely brilliant hole...... I hesitate to say that I had my first hole-in-one there.

One of the par fives, a slight dog-leg ahd to be crossed twice en route to the green, a long hitter could reach it in two, but the stream was positioned close to the edge of the green, rather like NO. 13 at Augusta.

Bob

[JESII]

Sounds really special Bob, thanks.

By the way, I count six periods there representing the time you "hesitated" before mentioning the hole in one. Not bad, definitely three or four more than I would have.

[wsmorrison]

Jim,

We have the original drawings of CC York in PA by both Ross and Flynn.  They were commissioned at the same time to provide drawings with a given starting and finishing point as the farmhouse was going to be converted to the clubhouse.  It is a fascinating contrast.  If you look at the two routings, Flynn's are often perpendicular to Ross.  Where Ross would go with the slope, Flynn crossed it.  Flynn's was a much tougher walk and probably a tougher course to play as well.  In any case, Ross won the competition.  We are doing a study of the two routings, not to come up with a better or worse analysis but a way to compare their routing tendencies.  Bob Crosby and Scott Nye (Merion head pro and formerly 11 year head pro at CC York) are helping us.  We think this will be a really interesting chapter in the Flynn book.  Do you know the course?

[JESII]

Wayne

I was hoping you would jump in, knowing your collection of drawings and interest in the subject.

I played CC of York once, as a teenager, and therefore have a very limited memory of it beyond being a nice course with a very dramatic par 5 (on the back I think) that rolls down and to the left, with another 5 immediately following. Am I on the right course

I would be interested in eavesdropping on one of those discussions some time between you four.

[Michael Dugger]

I think routing is the backbone of a course.  

For starters, the less work you have to do create golf holes the more money you save in construction costs.

However, this is not the say the most economical routing is the best routing, for sure.  The key is finding that balance.

Mr. Paul loves to talk of Merion playing like a play in three parts.  Cypress wanders away from the ocean, through the trees out into the dunes, back into the trees before crossing the dunes once again reaching the tremendous craggy oceanside climax.  

To me, the routing of a course stirs up those emotions that bring golf writers to refer to a round as a journey.  A journey must have a beginning, a destination, and a whole lot of adversity and excitement in between.  

Some courses, such as Sandpines in Florence, Oregon are so devoid of any of the charm inherent in a good routing that it just feels like a collection of golf holes.

That does not equate to a stirring journey, in my opinion, and a great course should be a stirring journey.    

[JESII]

Jeff Brauer

Thank you for your insight, it is clear, concise and very helpful. Does the bidding process allow an architect to fully evaluate the property (and presumably develop an intuitive routing) prior to placing a bid or at least accepting the contract?

Michael Dugger

We can all think of courses that leave us uninspired, and others (like Cypress for you) that leave us awestruck, but why do you blame the routing for the problems at Sandpines? Are the individual holes sound and enjoyable? Are there natural features on the property that were underutilized?

Considering the site, anyone would have used the "craggy oceanside" in a significant manner at Cypress, but would you have overdone it? Would I have used it as too much of a tease and not used it enough? Who knows how good the "journey" around a given property could be if it were different than was built (any property)?

[Michael Dugger]

Michael Dugger

We can all think of courses that leave us uninspired, and others (like Cypress for you) that leave us awestruck, but why do you blame the routing for the problems at Sandpines? Are the individual holes sound and enjoyable? Are there natural features on the property that were underutilized?

Considering the site, anyone would have used the "craggy oceanside" in a significant manner at Cypress, but would you have overdone it? Would I have used it as too much of a tease and not used it enough? Who knows how good the "journey" around a given property could be if it were different than was built (any property)?

I kind of think the answer to your question lies in the eye of the beholder, and I know that is a weak answer to some degree, but it it really and truly the case when it comes to what we think are the best courses.  

I don't know how else to put it other than some people have it, some do not.  

As far as Sandpines goes.  There were not any natural features that were underutilized because they were all bulldozed away!!!  Part of the problem, simply a fundamental difference between how different folks go about their practicing of the art form.

[JESII]

I kind of think the answer to your question lies in the eye of the beholder, and I know that is a weak answer to some degree, but it it really and truly the case when it comes to what we think are the best courses.  

I don't know how else to put it other than some people have it, some do not.  

Is that to say that all of MacKenzie's routings are of the highest order? Or that the architect / bulldozer driver at Sandpines has no chance of producing a good routing?

[wsmorrison]

Good memory, Jim.  14 and 15 are back to back par 5s by Ross at CC York.  14 is a dogleg left that drops about 120 feet and 15 is fairly straight away.  

I'll let you know when we're meeting again on that subject.  Always good fellowship and wine when we get together.  If you like, come by sometime and check out the drawings, it'd be a pleasure to show them to you.  I live in Merion.  Call me or email me anytime.  

I think this study will surely be one of the most fascinating analysis in the book.  

[Michael Dugger]

I kind of think the answer to your question lies in the eye of the beholder, and I know that is a weak answer to some degree, but it it really and truly the case when it comes to what we think are the best courses.  

I don't know how else to put it other than some people have it, some do not.  

Is that to say that all of MacKenzie's routings are of the highest order? Or that the architect / bulldozer driver at Sandpines has no chance of a good routing?

I would say Mac was quite a good router, I think there was more emphasis put on it "back in the day" when you did not have the Bulldozer available to you.

I don't quite understand your second question.  

[DMoriarty]

For some past designers, finding a route was everything.  Literally.  For some of todays designers, I am not sure finding a route matters much at all.  

Posters on here sometimes like to note that MacKenzie spent very little time on some of his designs.  This isnt surprising to me.  Once he routed the course I am not sure there was much left to do.  

[wsmorrison]

"Once he routed the course I am not sure there was much left to do."

David,

While I believe that the routing the golf course is the determining factor of the subsequent designing up of the golf course, there's a heck of a lot more to do.  

If you looked at John Reid's turn-of-the-century design at Atlantic City Country Club and compared it to William Flynn's subsequent redesign, the routing may be the same but the golf course underwent a huge improvement.  Strategies changed quite a bit.  Hazards and greens dictated a different approach to the same basic routed golf course.  Routing matters but so does how the course is built up from that routing.

By the way, Tom Doak did some wonderful work to improve Flynn's design.

Another example is the Merion East course designed by Hugh Wilson and initially constructed by Frederick Pickering.  There were some fairly significant changes made after Pickering was fired 3-4 years before the 1916 Amateur, apparently done by Wilson and Flynn.  Afterwards the course was dramatically changed prior to the 1924 Amateur.  Disregarding holes 10-13 that were re-routed after additional land was acquired, the remaining holes were in the same location but altered in their form, from the green back to the tee determining a different strategic approach.  

In both examples, the routing is essentially the same but the intrahole designs changed the look and playability of both courses.  The routing is the start and a strong component but do you really believe there isn't much to do after that?

[JESII]

For some past designers, finding a route was everything.  Literally.  For some of todays designers, I am not sure finding a route matters much at all.  

Posters on here sometimes like to note that MacKenzie spent very little time on some of his designs.  This isnt surprising to me.  Once he routed the course I am not sure there was much left to do.  

The point of my question to Bob Huntley when he mentioned the "almost pre-ordained routing" at Nchanga is valid for you as well based on the above quote.

Does the initial routing of a course include the sequence of the holes in regards to par? It seems to have been the good fortune in Zambia, but I would think that is a rarity.

What is the definition of a complete routing?

[DMoriarty]

. . .  In both examples, the routing is essentially the same but the intrahole designs changed the look and playability of both courses.  The routing is the start and a strong component but do you really believe there isn't much to do after that?

Surely there is much more to do.  Mowing for example.  But there are courses out there for which the "genius" is in finding the route.    Yes, one could always accentuate or mask the "genius" with the likes of the irrigation, bunker styling, mowing lines, maintenance, etc.  But finding a great route was the prerequisite for a great result.  

Crystal Downs is an example of such a course.  I am sure there are post-routing bells and whistles, but the genius of the course is in how MacKenzie used what was already there. Or so it seemed to me.  

A couple photos of No. 8, . . .





CD No. 8 may be the best hole on an outstanding front nine.   Yet I am not sure just what MacKenzie did other than find it.


JES asked

What is the definition of a complete routing?

When we talk about routings, it is usually after the fact including all the bells and whistles.   What I am talking about is determining the route of the course.  Looking at a property and finding the golf holes.  Golf holes meaning the greens, tees, fairways, features, etc.


Here is one fairly extreme way to look at it, I guess:  Routing (a verb) is finding the golf course.  All else is just making up for perceived deficiencies in the routing.  

Bob calls the routing in Zambia "almost preordained."   Do you suppose many modern architects would see it this way, or would they just doze it all and go from there?

[James Bennett]

D Moriarty

'or would they just doze...'

I think to doze means to sleep.  Could be a suitable albeit unintended pun.

I may have covered this before, but...
MacK's re-routing of Royal Adelaide took a course that generally played around the sandhills in the middle of the property to one that played into and then out of these sandhills.  That is the charm of the layout for nigh on 80 years.  The change occurred because of concerns with the railway line that runs through it (I think some holes used to traverse it, whereas the very back tee tips on one hole now traverses it).  MacK certainly saw a different routing.

The Golf Architecture Magazine (volume 3) has a picture of MacK's 1926 plan.  The Royal Adelaide web-site has a pre-1926 layout.  You probably need to know the site, and have the ability to print both of these together but they do provide a chance to see two different views of routing.  The Mackenzie routing was not fully implemented.

RAGC pre 1926
http://www.royaladelaidegolf.com.au/guests/history/index.htm
GA Magazine vol 3 post 1926
http://www.sagca.org.au/journal2000/mackenzie.html

[TEPaul]

"For some past designers, finding a route was everything.  Literally.  For some of todays designers, I am not sure finding a route matters much at all.  
Posters on here sometimes like to note that MacKenzie spent very little time on some of his designs.  This isnt surprising to me.  Once he routed the course I am not sure there was much left to do."

David Moriarty:

What course? Would you say at CPC creating the sizes, orientations, slopes and contours of greens and placing and creating all the man-made bunkering is something one could say 'was not much left to do' after the routing was set in place?  

[Tom_Doak]

TE:  I'm inclined to agree with David M. on that one.  I think that on a good piece of property, the routing is more than 50% of my contribution to the design.  If I left my associates with just the routing and a quick walk-through, I'm sure they would make a lot of the same choices I made about where to place the bunkers, what kind of contour to have in the greens (given the length of the hole and the slope of the green site), etc.

It is much more likely that I could have built the ninth hole at Cypress Point, given the tee and green locations by MacKeznie, than it is that I would have figured out how to work the eighth and ninth into the routing plan.

This would certainly explain why Ross and MacKenzie were able to do what they did without spending a whole lot of time on site.

As to routings being "obvious", I believe they are obvious only to the individual architect.  I have frequently done plans for courses where I didn't bother with many alternatives because it seemed obvious to me what was the best way to go ... but any time I've looked at another designer's routing for the same property I've worked on, it blows me away how differently they saw it and how few holes we had the same.

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