Sully:
I'm not being defensive if and when I question this idea of Seminole holding some sort of cumulative shot or score value in any wind around the compass. Frankly, that's something I've never thought of before and I have known the course for over forty years. But perhaps that's true. For instance, Pat is right for a good player who hits the ball about 275-280 all the par 5s sort of transition from 5 to 4 depending on where the wind is coming from. #3 and #15 very reachable in a wind out of the north/northwest, #14 in a wind out of the east and #9 in a wind out of the west. I guess I could continue to go through every hole and sort of determine if all together there is some kind of cumulative similarity in total score given any particular wind direction. If that's true, and it may be, that's interesting but I'm not sure I would say that's some from of routing genius. Secondly, I'd have to wonder if even Donald Ross was aware of something like that at all.
It also occurs to me that little Gulf Stream in Delray Beach may be the same way and basically it's primarily a north/south routing on a very narrow property. That one I've played over the years almost as much as my own course and it seems if you think through the holes as a whole the same sort of similar cumulative score no matter the wind direction may be true too. The reason for that would be if the wind was from either the north or south the long holes sort of balance out either way as do the short ones either way. The short ones east and west in either direction do too (the property is so narrow it's not possible to have long holes east and west).
Maybe this is sort of a Ross thing---I don't know, again, frankly I never really thought of something like that before about Seminole or any other course. All I ever thought about at Seiminole is what Rich mentioned---eg if the wind is really strong at Seminole from any direction I always expected the course to play one helluva lot harder than if there wasn't much wind. (BTW, when I shot that 90/70 I don't remember that there really was much of any wind either day).
And I agree with you that there's no question at all that a course like Shinnecock plays a whole lot harder with a wind from the north than it does in its prevailing wind. The reasons are obvious with holes like #1, #2, #3, #11, #12, #14 heading into the wind and #5 no longer reachable for good long players (I wouldn't know about things like that because I don't think I've hit half a dozen par 5s of any type in my entire life!
). #16 is probably not that reachable anyway down-wind from the north.
I love Seminole, always have, I just never thought of this idea of it holding some kind of cumulative similar score value in a wind from any direction. But even if it does, like perhaps Gulf Stream seems to, I don't know if I'd call that routing genius or brilliance, but perhaps it is. I guess what something like that would mean is that Ross just created a sort of balance of every type of hole right around the compass.
Personally, I think I'd prefer a course year in and year out that was perhaps easier in one wind direction and brutal in a wind from another direction score-wise. In that way you'd have sort of two or even three entirely different courses score-wise all due to the randomness of the wind direction. But if you and Pat think this idea of a cumulative score similarity in wind from any direction is brilliant and genius in a routing sense, that's cool too. Who am I to tell you what you should think is genius or brilliant about a golf course or routing? Seriously!
I think the routing of Seminole is brilliant pretty much for the way Ross used the two inline north/south ridgelines on the east and west sides of the property.
So, I'm not disputing either your or Pat's observation that Seminole holds some cumulative score value in any wind direction around the compass---again, that's something I never even thought about in all these years. The only thing I ever thought about was how strong the wind was no matter which direction it was coming from. (Maybe one of the reasons I personally think Seminole is harder in a north/northwest wind of say 20-25mph is because #1 becomes harder, #2 and #11 a lot harder for me as does #10, and #4 I basically couldn't reach and since I rarely ever even tried to reach par 5s in two #3 and #15 don't really matter to me. On holes like #6 and #18 I don't remember the wind direction mattering that much).
But how about if I just ask Buddy Marucci or Vinnie Giles what they think about that observation of a cumulative score similarity no matter the wind direction? They're two guys who've been members there for about 10-12 years and two guys who probably should have a pretty good idea about something like that since both of them were Walker Cup players. (actually Vinnie's the Green Chairman at Seminole). I'd have to say that Buddy and Vinnie would probably know more about all the nuances of that course and how various wind directions effect it than either me or you or Pat. I should also ask Tom Gilbert, our new head pro who came to us this year from Seminole. I'm really impressed with Tom Gilbert, really impressed---by his observations on architecture and classic architecture---really impressed. I hate to use the term but he really "gets it", it my opinion. You've got to meet him soon Sully. How about you come on over to Gulph Mills one of these days soon anyway---particularly when we've had some dry weather---there're a bunch of things I'd like to ask you and you should meet Tom Gilbert. I'll line up a game for you with him. (Maybe I'll get that NASA rocket scientist from New Jersey, Pat Mucci, down at the same time. Bring some ear muffs---and if you forget them I'll have some for you).