Greywalls review in Golfweek

« **Reply #25 on:** April 25, 2005, 05:05:30 PM »

Cary,

I had a long talk with Joe about the course...I don't have to play it to know it is better than Brad let on. I simply asked Joe if I was wrong. Brad's cutesy pie review pissed me off...so there.

« **Reply #26 on:** April 25, 2005, 05:48:17 PM »

Here's the URL to the Greywall review:

http://www.golfweek.com/americasbest/301448332396090.php

« **Reply #27 on:** April 25, 2005, 06:03:02 PM »

Brad,

I admire you for having the guts to post that piece of work. Why on such a heavily anticipated course did you waste so much of your one page of valuable architectual space on so many Lord of the Rings metaphores, along the way telling us how great Doak, Hanse, Coore and Crenshaw and of course Kingsley Club are....we already knew that. Then why waste a quarter of your article on the other course and its "mindlessness" and "dopey conifers". Not to mention the mentality of "the folks" of the UP. It is sweet though to know that the drive off of the first hole is exhilarating and the course is neither predictable or linear.

I'm not even going to get into the Rater's Notebook....what a mess. It's like some three headed lizard from the house of queef stole your notebook after the first hole and you wished it in. You can and have done so much better.

« **Reply #28 on:** April 25, 2005, 06:14:25 PM »

I worked with Mike early on at Marquette.

Brad's article does good at describing the dramatic nature of the Greywalls course. It's very dramatic. And, as Brad points out, Mike deserves a lot of credit for taming that site.

Another respected individual involved with golf course design, construction and maintenance visited some years ago and commented: "You can't build a golf course here!"

I have some aged literature in front of me outlining Golfweek's rating criteria. If things haven't changed though, Brad's "6" overall places Greywalls outside the top-100 Modern.

The rating game is too subjective for me to argue one way or the other. I will say though, Greywalls features many outstanding holes.

« **Reply #29 on:** April 25, 2005, 06:18:07 PM »

Jeff,

In raterspeak a 6 is a polite way of saying nice job but forget about ever being on the list.

Can you tell me what Brad was trying to convey when he said..."And it brings golfers to the edge and back while demanding they maintain a hold of their golf senses."

« **Reply #30 on:** April 25, 2005, 09:52:08 PM »

I felt the calling while I was on my 6th hole and 3rd Bloody Mary today....

First off, all I have had the priviledge of at Greywalls is spending two days walking the course with Mike D. and Pete C, the super. We identified about 1200 trees to be removed in our two days on the course. I took a mess of pictures even though it was cold when we did this last November.

Second, Brad Klein knows way more than I ever will about golf course architecture, even if my butt stays on a dozer the rest of my life. Mike D. is the consumate teacher, however, so I may make up some ground...no pun intended!.

I have to admit that Brad's write-up sort of appealed to me. Maybe it was the bombastic imagery, or perhaps the off-beat tone for a golf course review. I tend to favor things not of the norm. I don't pay any attention to things like "raters speak". It matters very little to me as long as I'm busy working. In fact, if it wasn't for the fact that our pro shop gets most any golf rag that is published, I wouldn't know GW from GD from any other magazine.

I love when a guy like JK asks about a course he hasn't seen. He retains enough of what he is told to be able to compare it to what he reads of someone elses' account of the same course. What my description to him was vs. what he read from Brad might pique his curiosity to make him take a few days to travel through Michigan and see what Mike D. has done. That would be the real benefit of a review by Brad Klein or anyone else who knows the game. Honestly...who read Brad's review of Greywalls and didn't want to jump in a car or on a plane and head for Marquette?

Joe

« **Reply #31 on:** April 25, 2005, 10:24:42 PM »

Quote from: Joe Hancock on April 25, 2005, 09:52:08 PM

Second, Brad Klein knows way more than I ever will about golf course architecture, even if my butt stays on a dozer the rest of my life.

Damn, Brad knows way more than me too...Go Brad. Joe, you are the consumate diplomat, I could learn a thing or two from you....and yes Brad's review did make me want to see Greywalls even more and given the few courses that make it into our beloved architecture bi-something fix in Golfweek the course is indeed blessed...even if by a wiccan review.

« **Reply #32 on:** April 26, 2005, 06:28:02 AM »

Just for everyones information, Marquette is about 7 hours from Minnesota and 5 hours to Kohler according to Mapqwest.

« **Reply #33 on:** April 26, 2005, 09:02:12 AM »

"....and yes Brad's review did make me want to see Greywalls even more...."

But John B. that's the very point of it all so why be harsh on either Brad or his review?

That's why the magazine and all the clubs Brad visits and reviews pay him the big bucks. How do you think Brad can afford to drive around in the expensive Neon he has with every available option on it?

« **Reply #34 on:** April 26, 2005, 10:37:49 AM »

TEP, my 1995 Mazda Protege has only 148,000 miles. Now that the car's air conditioner condenser isn't working, I find myself spending more time flying in the Citation that's parked in the backyard hanger.

« **Reply #35 on:** April 26, 2005, 11:39:12 AM »

Brad - need a pilot?

« **Reply #36 on:** April 26, 2005, 11:53:15 AM »

yes . . . a pilot, a secretary and a shrink.

« **Reply #37 on:** April 27, 2005, 10:52:54 PM »

I recieved my grand openning invitation for June 16, 2005. Many thanks to Mike, Ann and his 2 wonderful kids for putting up with his passion that we all will be able enjoy in mid June.

« **Reply #38 on:** April 28, 2005, 09:45:45 AM »

It was great to see Brad's review, especially before the course "officially" opens. Most of his comments are spot on, although it seemed at times that his enthusiastic commentary didn't quite match the numbers he assigned it. The one surpise from Brad's write-up is that he didn't emphasize the greens as much as I would have expected, as they look (although I have not played them) to be one of the wildest (in a positive way) sets of greens I have seen.

Greywalls is so impressive that, months after a quick tour of it on a cold, rainy October day and without ever having played it, I signed up for the Club's amazing national membership, surely one of the best bargains in golf. My family and I are looking forward to spending some good time in the attractive city of Marquette and playing this wonderful new course. The prospect of the Heritage being transformed into something along the lines of Lawsonia makes my knees weak -- what a 36 that would be!

It will be interesting to read the comments of people as they play Greywalls.

« **Reply #39 on:** April 28, 2005, 09:50:19 AM »

Any course that gets John to post must be a 10!

I can't recall - has anyone ever posted photos of Greywall?

« **Reply #40 on:** April 28, 2005, 10:12:40 AM »

John,

There are some wonderful Langford holes at Marquette that could easily be restored (tree removal, green surface expansion, and bunker work). But, turning the Heritage into something comparable to Lawsonia Links would be a mammoth task! For one, the Gill holes would have to be completely rebuilt.

Hopefully Greywalls will be a major success and the club will let Mike D. have at the Heritage in a few years. That would be cool, no doubt.

« **Reply #41 on:** April 28, 2005, 12:58:09 PM »

Jeff --

I agree the project to the Heritage would be huge, but I don't think it's out of the question. While 14-18 are completely separate from Langford's work, it's good that the other Gill holes mingle among the Langford ones, meaning the prospect of building a consistent course is better than the daunting task faced by Tim Liddy at Harrison Hills, where the property for his new nine was very different than that of the Langford nine. Like Tim, Mike would have the challenging task of building, in effect, new holes that need to look like Langford's work.

PS What was it with Langford and nine-hole courses??? Did anyone of note buil as many?

« **Reply #42 on:** April 28, 2005, 01:02:32 PM »

John,

Ross did many 9-holers. According to golfcourse.com, 28 in all, though add at least one, since Rolling Rock wasn't included, and 9 in Massachusetts alone. As a percentage compared to Langford, it certainly could be lower.

« **Reply #43 on:** April 28, 2005, 03:40:13 PM »

John,

Langford laid out 18 holes at Marquette, but only nine were built. The club has the original Langford plan. Perhaps the same happened at other Langford courses that only feature nine holes?

At Marquette, Gill's nine holes don't follow Langford's routing plan though. There's actually some housing built upon areas Langford intended to be golf holes.

« **Reply #44 on:** April 28, 2005, 04:13:38 PM »

I think Brad did a good job on the review. I've been itching to see the course ever since I saw the excitement in Mike's eyes as he described what he was doing there. I'm just sorry I won't be able to see it until next year.

« **Reply #45 on:** April 28, 2005, 04:32:28 PM »

Quote from: George Pazin on April 28, 2005, 09:50:19 AM

I can't recall - has anyone ever posted photos of Greywall?

There are several construction phase photos of the course at our website:

http://www.marquettegolfclub.com/

Just click on Greywalls->Layout via the left-hand menu, and you can check each hole out by clicking on them on the map. Each set of photos is accompanied by an original drawing by Mike plus a brief description he authored before the course was completed. The photos and Mike's words provide a great study of the full construction process of a course built on some extremely wild terrain, and provide some additional insight into how the course will play.

Finished product photos from last fall are in the possession of our professional photographer - if I can get a few from him I'll post them.

« **Reply #46 on:** April 30, 2005, 10:49:58 AM »

Quote from: Jeff_Mingay on April 28, 2005, 03:40:13 PM

John,

Langford laid out 18 holes at Marquette, but only nine were built. The club has the original Langford plan. Perhaps the same happened at other Langford courses that only feature nine holes?

I believe that West Bend CC, which is NW of Milwaukee, had an 18 hole routing by Langford. They built the front nine and then Gill added the back nine, but didn't build it the same way -- I think he routed that nine backwards from the original Langford routing. The disparity between the 2 nines is quite large and the Langford front would be very good, if restored.

« **Reply #47 on:** April 30, 2005, 11:39:29 AM »

Thanks so much for the link, Brian. The photos are great, they almost tell a story of how the hole was created.

I hope no one minds if I post one of the photos to get folks an idea of the course (I'll take it down it anyone objects):

Sunrise at the 9th green

Congratulations on another success, Mike and team. Thanks for coming on here to share your passion with the rest of us.

« **Reply #48 on:** April 30, 2005, 02:19:24 PM »

If someone can tell me of a free website to host pictures, I have a few that I took late last fall....if Mike doesn't mind!

Joe

« **Reply #49 on:** April 30, 2005, 02:23:55 PM »

Joe -

You can email 'em to me - I think I have room.

tshirts@nauticom.net

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