[JC Jones]

Hey, who made you pope of this dump?

[Tim Bert]

I'm between a sean and a tim bert.  We might as well kill two birds with one stone and make a charitable endeavor.  Tim, your suggestion keeps closed doors closed and honestly, I'm disappointed that you would even give it air.  The kind that can afford $500 rounds have already seen these courses.  The idea is to raise support for golf course architecture and travel to Europe to play these fine courses.  As the Euro weakens, the plausibility of a trip becomes more viable.

If you think that $5G is small potatoes, have 104 club members match the visitor expense and you double to $10G.  The idea IS TO HAVE a random lottery.  The idea IS TO MAKE IT comparable to fine public courses.  Case in point:  Hickory Stick in Lewiston, NY opens this year.  It is a Seneca Niagara casino resort course.  If the rack rate is $150, few locals play it.  If opportunity to play it for $50-$75 is offered, the locals experience it, decide it if they like it, and perhaps make plans to return.

If you want people to base their opinions on great courses entirely on hearsay, by all means, lay down your $500 tariff.  Oh, do I have lots to write on this subject...

If you want to open the courses to those that can't afford it, then simply offer it up for free and make it a lottery and put a cap on income for those that can apply.  I'd say that $50k sounds about right.  

Anyone with an income greater than that amount that truly and deeply wants to experience their lifelong dream course can afford to spend 1% of their salary in one year - so they can enroll in the $500 event.  Or they can choose to meet people, develop friendships, become a rater, etc like everyone else and pay the sticker price as an accompanied or unaccompanied guest.

Putting the $50-$100 price tag on it feels a lot more like cheap people or those not willing to invest time in social relationships demanding their fair share and access to clubs that, in many cases, don't want or need the attention.

Perhaps Ferrari and other auto manufacturers should all let us drive of their high-end cars once a year for free so we can all get a taste?      

[Eric Smith]

Hey, who made you pope of this dump?

A Dump?  Well....I'll guarantee you'll never be a member here!

[TEPaul]

Interesting old thread. I'd forgotten about doing it but I see I went into my usual rant against the Vatican around Reply #100 or so. If some one person actually got into a position to control the golf world my first suggestion would be they not call themselves "Pope." 

[JC Jones]

Hey, who made you pope of this dump?

A Dump?  Well....I'll guarantee you'll never be a member here!

You think I'd join this crummy snobatorium?  The only reason I'm here is maybe I'll buy it.

[TEPaul]

JC:

Do you happen to know any of the etymologies of the word snob?

[Tim Bert]

JC:

Do you happen to know any of the etymologies of the word snob?

I know this question was not directed at me, but I did not. I just took the time to look it up.  Not exaclty what I expected.

[JC Jones]

JC:

Do you happen to know any of the etymologies of the word snob?

I do not.  Although based on your question, I assume it has a history of meaning something different, or perhaps opposite, of what it is generally understood to mean today.  Nevertheless, I was quoting a movie.

[Ronald Montesano]

1.  Tim, we'll just disagree on this one.  I'm a believer in making something out of nothing, but not giving things away for free.

2.  RE:  One etymology of Snob:

1781, "a shoemaker, a shoemaker's apprentice," of unknown origin. It came to be used in Cambridge University slang c.1796 for "townsman, local merchant," and by 1831 it was being used for "person of the ordinary or lower classes." Meaning "person who vulgarly apes his social superiors" arose 1843, popularized 1848 by William Thackeray's "Book of Snobs." The meaning later broadened to include those who insist on their gentility, in addition to those who merely aspire to it, and by 1911 had its main modern sense of "one who despises those considered inferior in rank, attainment, or taste."

[JC Jones]

Who knew Mr. Paul was so transparent

[Tim Bert]

Ronald agree with your first sentence. It doesn't really matter since neither your suggetion nor mine is going to take place. It wod be silly to waste too much energy arguing whose not going to happen scenario has more merit.

Partucularly when it is clear mine is superior. 

[Bob_Huntley]

"The meaning later broadened to include those who insist on their gentility, in addition to those who merely aspire to it, and by 1911 had its main modern sense of "one who despises those considered inferior in rank, attainment, or taste."


Snobbery, surprisingly enough,  is found quite often at prominent golf clubs within the United Kingdom and USA. Oh, come to think of it I'll include Germany and France.


Bob

[TEPaul]

JC and Ronald:

Yes indeed it certainly is different from the more commonally understood etymology for snob you just cited. This one was taught to us at St. Mark's School by one English teacher who was actually one helluva erudite and totally interesting Englishman, and I suppose from a family that over there that was considered to be of partiuclarly noble birth. He claimed the other etymology derived from a few so-called English "public" boarding schools----in their case the word "public" actually meaning incredibly private!! These were for little lower classmen sons of sort of the English aristocracy. They actually had clubs in those little boarding schools that were sort of automatic filters into the likes of Oxford and Cambridge and being imbued with the idea and ethos of TRUE Noblese Oblige where the idea of a true gentleman (one etymology being GENTLE man) was that he should never in any case disrespect anyone he understood to be below his station in life----eg the idea was a true gentleman essentially always treated everyone from cobblers to kings the same way---politely!

Anyway, when they were considering candidates for their clubs if they felt one did no measure up to that type of ethos because he was disrespectful to people below his station in life they would write next to his name for admission to the club the partial acronym S.NOB. which meant sine nobilis----without nobility!

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom,

In 18th and 19th century England, the term Gentleman was used for those persons who did not have to grub for money "in trade." Basically one was a landowner or beneficiary of a legacy of some sort or another.

From the explanation of your tutor at St. Marks, I am sure he extolled the virtues of the Corinthian ideals of amateurism.

Bob

[TEPaul]

"From the explanation of your tutor at St. Marks, I am sure he extolled the virtues of the Corinthian ideals of amateurism."


BobH:

He did indeed extoll the virtues of the Corinthian ideal of amateurism and such, even though, oddly, he did not for some reason see eye to eye with our Greek teacher and some of his ideas on things. (Is it possible the English aristocracy of the 17th, 18th and 19th century felt they had taken life and thought a few levels beyond and above Ancient and Classical Greece?). 

Actually, to be allowed to concentrate on Greek at St. Marks School you pretty much had to earn the right to it by doing remarkably well with your grades for quite a time. I never made that cut and so I've always been somewhat leery of Greece, Greek and Greeks. I abide by that greart story about Jackie Kennedy. One day after the President was killed, Jackie's mother, Mrs Auchincloss, asked her how she was feeling and she apparently said: "Mother, I think I have mononucleosis." Her mother said: "Jackie, how many times have I told you not to go to bed with a Greek?"

[Mike_Young]

 This just in.......

The Pope and Tiger woods died on the same day and because of an
 administrative mix up the Pope went to hell and Tiger Woods went to
 heaven.
 The Pope explains the situation to the administrative clerk in hell, and
 after checking the paperwork admits that there is an error. "However",
 the clerk explains, "it would be 24 hours before it can be rectified".
 
Next day the Pope is called and Hell's staff bids him farewell.
 
On the way up, the Pope meets Tiger Woods coming down from heaven and
 they stop to have a chat.
 
"Sorry about the mix up", apologies the Pope "No problem" replied Tiger
 Woods,
 
Pope: "I am really anxious to get to heaven"
 Tiger: "Why is that?"
 Pope: "All my life I have wanted to meet the Virgin Mary"
 Tiger: "You're a day late"

[Eric Smith]

[Dan King]

Jeez, the poor have the whole inheriting the earth thing going for them, and they want to play on nice golf courses in the interim? Bluidy greedy of them if you ask me.

Cheers,
Dan King

"Unless one is wealthy there is no use in being a charming fellow. Romance is the privilege of the rich, not the profession of the unemployed. The poor should be practical and prosaic. It is better to have a permanent income than to be fascinating."
 --Oscar Wilde

[TEPaul]

"Jeez, the poor have the whole inheriting the earth thing going for them, and they want to play on nice golf courses in the interim? Bluidy greedy of them if you ask me."

Come on Dan, this whole "inherit the earth" thing was just another feel good way Catholicism tried to make the poor work harder so they would give more money to the church. And then, dang it if that atheist Karl Marx didn't essentially borrow that marketing adage from the church to create communist revolution.

If you ask me this whole thing is some kind of global conspiracy and I think the damn Freemasons are behind the whole thing! And what did they start out as for God's sake? Just a bunch of common French burglars who ripped off some Middle Eastern tribes! What they did by ripping off the treasure in the Temple on the Mount isn't much different than some people robbing the mob or the Columbian drug cartel today of all their loot. If you do something like that the only way you can possibly survive longterm is to keep the con for all time to come and make up a bunch of bullshit stories in the process to cover up what you actually did. 

[Mike_Young]

TP,
Just try hanging out in the Latin countries where the "blessing to be poor" deal runs rampant....add that to no birth control and you got some power...

[JC Jones]

"Jeez, the poor have the whole inheriting the earth thing going for them, and they want to play on nice golf courses in the interim? Bluidy greedy of them if you ask me."

Come on Dan, this whole "inherit the earth" thing was just another feel good way Catholicism tried to make the poor work harder so they would give more money to the church. And then, dang it if that atheist Karl Marx didn't essentially borrow that marketing adage from the church to create communist revolution.

If you ask me this whole thing is some kind of global conspiracy and I think the damn Freemasons are behind the whole thing! And what did they start out as for God's sake? Just a bunch of common French burglars who ripped off some Middle Eastern tribes! What they did by ripping off the treasure in the Temple on the Mount isn't much different than some people robbing the mob or the Columbian drug cartel today of all their loot. If you do something like that the only way you can possibly survive longterm is to keep the con for all time to come and make up a bunch of bullshit stories in the process to cover up what you actually did. 

Man, that is funny.

[TEPaul]

"Man, that is funny."


Funny?? Yeah, well the only reason you say it's funny is because you ain't poor. You must be one of those rich architects connected to that international oligarchy of rich Freemasons who want to keep all us meek golfers poor or poor golfers meek.

[TEPaul]

By the way, don't you just love that word meek? Doesn't in just sound like what it means? It's just so, so, ah, so onomatopoetic?!

Nevertheless, even if I am meek, I'm also mad as Hell and I'm not going to take it anymore! Therefore, I hereby propose that the Catholic Church, The Vatican, The PGA of America, The PGA Tour, Toro, Jacobsen, John Deere, Titleist, Nike, Taylor Made, Callaway et al, all the agronomic chemicals companies, and perhaps even the US Government be taken over by the new 21st century USGA! At least they are part-time not-for-profit volunteers who don't have any idea what they're really doing so they wouldn't recognize a true global conspiracy if it whacked them upside the head.

[Dan King]

TEPaul writes:
Come on Dan, this whole "inherit the earth" thing was just another feel good way Catholicism tried to make the poor work harder so they would give more money to the church.

Let's just say you are right for the sake of argument. (I really have no desire to get into a theology argument when I am so poorly prepared.) But what about the whole rich having as much shot at the Kingdom of heaven as a camel and a really small hole? So the poor get this easy trip to heaven and they want to also play NGL? Is it so wrong to give the rich a nice course since they will more than likely have to spend eternity burning in hell fire?

Nevertheless, even if I am meek, I'm also mad as Hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!

You've never come across as meek to me Mr. Paul. Maybe in person you have this very Clark Kent vibe, but on this group you can't claim meekdom.

At least they are part-time not-for-profit volunteers who don't have any idea what they're really doing so they wouldn't recognize a true global conspiracy if it whacked them upside the head.

That's all we need, the bona fide so socialists on the USGA taking over. Sure, they can't do any worse the Congress, but isn't that a mightly low bar to get over?

Just because none of us have seen your birth certificate is no reason for us to believe you aren't American, is it?

Cheers,
Dan King

"So here you have Barack Obama going in and spending the money on embryonic stem cell research. ... Eugenics. In case you don't know what Eugenics led us to: the Final Solution. A master race! A perfect person. ... The stuff that we are facing is absolutely frightening."
 --Glen Beck

[Gib_Papazian]

Assuming that the theology department has concluded their theoretical parodies, can I ask a reasonably germane question?

Let us say that the white smoke arose above Far Hills and our new leader was Pope Pius Egalitus - keeper of all things fair and public. Further, let us theorize that it was mandated that every "great" club would swing open their doors to a foursome a day of the lowly plebeians (aside from the Pizza Man - for those who were here during the Reformation).

Would the average public player - if relatively uninformed of the exclusivity and historical significance of what he is about to play - derive more enjoyment from Shinnecock Hills or Maidstone than Pelican Hill or one of the more glamorous CCFAD's?

Does this refugee from the local muni, upon walking off of NGLA, have an architectural epiphany and suddenly grasp what the fuss is all about? Or is he so out of his depth that expecting his appreciation of complex strategic arrangements akin to asking a child to articulate the genius of Monet's Water Lilies vs. a well drawn cartoon character?

Is Joe Six Pack capable of ascertaining the difference between rough-around-the-edges Newport and pristine but soulless Cascata?

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