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Jfaspen

Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2005, 01:33:01 PM »
Was AB designed by Rick Smith?  I seem to remember that he designed it, some of the land gave way.. And then new ownership took over and gave the credit to someone else..

Anyone shed some light?  Also, looking to head up there in early may to get a round in..  Are any courses close enough to play in the morning then head to arcadia for the sunset round?
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Don Dinkmeyer

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Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2005, 04:10:49 PM »
Quote from: Jeffrey Formanczyk on April 17, 2005, 01:33:01 PM
Was AB designed by Rick Smith?  I seem to remember that he designed it, some of the land gave way.. And then new ownership took over and gave the credit to someone else..

Anyone shed some light?  Also, looking to head up there in early may to get a round in..  Are any courses close enough to play in the morning then head to arcadia for the sunset round?


My understanding - Rick Smith was involved at the start, but did not attend to the project sufficiently. The owners/investors then decided to remove him from the project.

Seems strange to me - wouldn't a contract cover you, and, wouldn't he protest more if he'd been involved??

---Courses nearby include Crystal Mountain (2), Heathlands, County Highlands - all within 15 minutes. Manistee National is 35-40 min south and has two courses as well, the newer one definitely a challenge.

Have fun!
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Ken Fry

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Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2005, 04:47:09 PM »
Pull some strings.  Crystal Downs is not far away.
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Joe Hancock

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Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2005, 04:48:35 PM »
Nor is Kingsley.....

Joe
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Jfaspen

Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2005, 05:26:51 PM »
Don, thanks for the suggestions and the info about rick smith.. out of the courses you listed.. what is the one most worth seeing?

Ken, it would be nice, we will see :)

jf
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Craig Van Egmond

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Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2005, 09:11:48 PM »

I believe Warren Henderson was the architect most responsible for Arcadia Bluffs.  And a mighty fine job he did, I liked it so much better than Bay Harbor. I'm not so sure about it being 10th best public course though.



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Don Dinkmeyer

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Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2005, 10:33:34 PM »
Quote from: Jeffrey Formanczyk on April 17, 2005, 05:26:51 PM
Don, thanks for the suggestions and the info about rick smith.. out of the courses you listed.. what is the one most worth seeing?

Ken, it would be nice, we will see :)

jf


Jeffrey-
Of these, Crystal Mountain/Mountain course is good and 15 min away. Manistee Nat'l Cutters Ridge is 35 min away and probably more challenging. Have fun!
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John_McMillan

Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2005, 11:35:09 PM »
Re Smith/Henderson at AB -

At the end of construction there was a rain storm which washed part of the course into Lake Michigan.  The course was fined, and for a while there was talk of criminal charges against the owners.  With that controversy, Rick Smith distanced himself from architectural involvement in the course.

Re AB routing -

I had a chance to walk the course last spring with Tom Doak.  Doak commented that he believed the original routing of the course was different than the way it was playing.  After our walk the clubhouse guy commented that the course's routing would be changing.  The changes are what Doak surmised the original routing to be.  
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Jonathan McCord

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Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2005, 12:45:29 AM »
    Does anyone happen to know which part of the course eroded into Lake Michigan?  The only part I can think of would be the wash between the 13th tee and green.  Is that, in fact, the location of the erosion?
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Steven_Biehl

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Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2005, 12:57:59 PM »
In response to some the above comments.  None of the actual course washed into Lake Michigan.  An existing ravine on the property that had been eroding forever eroded sand and water into the lake due to the 100+ year storm.  There were no criminal charges talked of or filed.  The lawsuit between Arcadia and the state was settled two years ago.  Rick Smith gets credit for the routing of the course, and is listed as the co-designer (along with Warren Henderson who was on site weekly) in all Arcadia literature.

There have been numerous routing possibilities discussed during the life of Arcadia.  The routing was changed two years ago to better accommodate players and get them around faster.  The current routing has a great flow.
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Matt_Ward

Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2005, 01:32:04 PM »
I too have had the pleasure in playing all of the three (3) courses mentioned herin.

Can't fathom how Digest raters have Arcadia Bluffs THAT far up in their national assessment but TKC is no more than 20th best in MI. I can only imagine either ignorance or stupidity are at work here.
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Paul Richards

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Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2005, 03:07:21 PM »
Matt

>TKC is no more than 20th best in MI.  I can only imagine either ignorance or stupidity are at work here.


Can't say I agree or disagree, but I do know that publication had Franklin Hills ranked at #21 in the state of Michigan as well for 2005.

 :-[ :-X :P :'(
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John_McMillan

Re:Changes at Arcadia Bluffs
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2005, 03:20:52 PM »
Quote from: Steven_Biehl on April 19, 2005, 12:57:59 PM
None of the actual course washed into Lake Michigan.

Steven,

Just to get the facts straight - the area between what was then the 9th tee and the 9th green washed into Lake Michigan.  Seems to me like it's a part of the actual course.

In 1999, Michigan Attorney General Jennifer Granholm filed a $425,000 lawsuit against Arcadia Bluffs.  Though criminal charges were not filed, they were certainly discussed at that time.  That lawsuit was settled by a payment to the state of $125,000 by RVP Development.  RVP development sued the golf course builder - Furness Golf Construction - for $4.6 million, claiming the construction company was liable.  A jury dismissed RVP's lawsuit.  

Between 1999 and 2003, Arcadia Bluffs was a very controversial golf course - and Rick Smith's name was not as prominently associated with the golf course as it was before 1999, or after 2004.  
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