Explaining the Value of Uneven Lies?

[Greg Holland]

How would you respond to a rather new, but quickly improving golfer (who is interested in learning about golf courses and architecture) who complains, "I really like your course, but I do wish it had more level lies."  He commented, "even if you had to 'over-design' it, it would be nice if there was a point A on each hole that was a flat area you could aim for off the tee."  

I tried explaining that there are strategic plays -- i.e., you can't just try to drive it down the middle each hole; and that great courses have lots of uneven and varied lies to test the golfer's shot-making ability, etc., but he didn't seem to buy it.
Thoughts?

[JESII]

One good shot does not merit a free pass for the remainder of the hole.

To make a par 4 a player must hit the drive well > hit a good approach shot onto the green > negotiate the first putt to close range > tap in for par.

[Tom_Doak]

I would respond that if the player wants to continue his improvement, he should learn to play from uneven lies instead of constantly trying to steer around them, because if he doesn't, when he gets to the second hole at St. Andrews he'll be toast.

[Jason Topp]

I view a good course as one that pokes and prods for weaknesses in one's game, while rewarding strengths.  Unven lies do a great job of doing that.  If one swings too flat, ball below feet lies are tough.  If one swings too upright ball above feet lies are difficult.  If one does not plan on an uphill lie flying higher and shorter, his shot will be short.  The impact of these factors changes on every shot, depending on how one is playing and the severity and type of slope.

Uneven lies are a particularly good method of testing one's physical ability and ability to manage mistakes because (1) anyone can play from them. (2) one needs to make a decision of how much to compensate for them, (3) they add interest to otherwise uninteresting shots by rewarding the ability to place the ball in certain spots, (4) technology will never make uneven lies less interesting (other than making some approach shots shorter) and (5) the penalty for screwing up a shot off an uneven lie is usually not that severe, unless the player makes a dumb decision.

[A_Clay_Man]

Greg- I'd Try to relate the situation in fundamental terms that relate to what this guys likely to understand. The need to be aware of the situation, have the knowledge of how to overcome the specific adversity, and adapt, come to mind. Flat lies require zero observational skills. If that dont work, take his argument to it's ultimate extent, and show him how if all the lies in all the world were flat, all you'd have is a driving range.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tell him that he might be happier at the driving range.

[jim_lewis]

It seems to me that you guys are being a little too hard on Greg's friend. Sure, to become an accomplished player he better learn to hit off all sorts of lies. But, many excellent holes offer a spot on the fairway where a well concieved and executed shot will leave a level lie. This situation is often found on a hole where the second shot is downhill. The smart shot may be to hit less than a driver to leave a longer but more level second shot. Conversely some uphill holes flatten out at a point where a long drive is rewarded with a level lie while us short-knockers bang it into the upslope and are left with a long, uphill lie. I think that falls into the category of strategy which is so highly appreciated on this site.

[JESII]

Legend has thet during Ben Hogan's first tour around Merion a member playing with them pointed out the flag-pole near the clubhouse as the ideal line for the drive on #18. After his drive splits the pole and they walk up to the fairway, Hogan realizes he is on a bit of a sidehill lie. He promptly approaches the member and points out that the next time he gives that advice tell the player that 8 yards[/color] to the right of the pole is the ideal line because you have a flat lie over there. Sort of like the divot story if you ask me.

[ForkaB]

It's the difference between t-ball and baseball.

[TEPaul]

Greg, if I were you I'd tell that guy the same thing Sam Snead told Mrs Grace on the 9th hole at Piping Rock;

"Take two weeks off and then quit the game."

[Dan Kelly]

Say: "Golf, my friend, is a natural game. Just as there are no straight lines in nature, so there is no flatness in nature."

This is, of course, presuming that your friend has never been to North Dakota.