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Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Desperate times in Denver, CO
« on: January 12, 2003, 11:38:26 PM »
  The city of Denver recently announced that 4 of its courses are closed until further notice due to the drought.  Now, mind you, these are not classics in any sense of the phrase (except City Park GC is really old), but it echoes what is happening all over the area.  I have never in my life heard of golf courses closing due to drought, so this is a first for me.  It looks like fast and firm (and brown and dead) are going to be the norm for my golfing season here, as we just ended the dryest year on record and look to be heading into another year of the same.  Please, send your positive precipitation thoughts this way.


Brad Swanson
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

redanman

Re: Desperate times in Denver, CO
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2003, 07:42:49 AM »
Winter was always my favorite time to play when I lived in Denver.

Good luck on saving Rocky Mountain Golf access. :'(

Bill
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Desperate times in Denver, CO
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2003, 02:40:00 PM »
What seems odd is that early in the season the snow pack was at record hieghts. Does this mean that there has been no significant precipitation since November?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desperate times in Denver, CO
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2003, 03:13:52 PM »
Brad:
What is the financial condition of these courses or the City of Denvers financial condition?  Have they laid off the pro and maintance staffs?   Lastly have you heard if the city is willing to sell or lease the courses?   It seems odd to me they would take such measures.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desperate times in Denver, CO
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2003, 03:43:25 PM »
Adam,
   November was quite good to the mountains.  December was the driest on record here in Denver I believe.  Another year like last year and the metro area will be in really dire straits.

Joel,
   I don't think the closures have anything to do with finances.  Its strictly that the courses don't have much grass on them anymore (so I'm told).  Apparently City Park GC is sporting huge cracks in many of the fairways due to the dry conditions.  In addition, the city has cancelled any organized recreational leagues (soccer/volleyball) in the city parks due to the damage to the turf (what's left of it).  The park where I walk my dog is in really bad shape (mostly dirt in the well traveled areas).

Brad Swanson
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desperate times in Denver, CO
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2003, 04:06:27 PM »
Mountains are in good shape--50" base at Vail and nearly 200" of snow year to date. [As an aside, one of my favourite days is the ski/golf double--ski in the am and golf in the pm--eminently doable starting around March 1.]  We get nearly all out water from the mtns so this helps. However, our area is in a huge deficit and needs a lot more to pull out of this drought. Brad, mebbe we could retain some of that Colorado River water so it stays where it belongs and doesn't end up on some dog track in Palm Springs or LA!    ;D

My sense is that this is maintenance oriented. We've had nearly no precip in 2 months and the courses were just getting destroyed from play (it's mid 50s today and very playable for example). So they need to rest them till say April 1 when they'll reopen.

Joel, I was thinking the same about staffs. I suspect they've laid off the maintenance staffs (probably a skeleton crew anyway this time of year). The pros may not be around anyway (gone south for the winter) or will still be running the pro shops during this hiatus.

Firm and fast? We got it...

All The Best,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Matt_Ward

Re: Desperate times in Denver, CO
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2003, 04:31:36 PM »
I had the pleasure in visiting Colorado two times in 2002 for extensive golf visits and it utterly shocked me to see how low the Colorado River was as one drove on I-70 thru the Mountains.

I also agree completely with Doug the aspect of "firm and fast" is clearly alive on the courses. I played Bear Dance in early September and the balls were moving quite nicely. The key was in keeping your approcahes under control because the putting surfaces were not in the mood to accept just anything hit into them.

I would be most interested in hearing about Walking Stick in Pueblo because although I really like the course I was stunned by the bone dry turf. I understand the town was facing some political heat because management needs to keep the course in some sort of shape in order to attract out of town visitors but clearly using H20 for golf can have major repercussions when all other folks / businesses are put under the gun for any excess usage.

The '03 season could very well have major impacts on many courses in the state. I just pray the snow pack is sufficient enough to improve where things have been. Is there cause for such optimism?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

redanman

Re: Desperate times in Denver, CO
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2003, 04:34:02 PM »
A factor to remember if you aren't aware of the geography is that all the ski resorts of note (Save Eldora near Boulder and some other small ones) Vail, Aspen, Telluride,Breckenridge, Keystone Steamboat... are all on the Pacific side of the continental divide.  All that water DOES go to CA and NV and AZ via the Colorado river system.

The eastern slope is hurtin'.  

Different storm patterns provide precipitation for the two sides of the divide so an "Upslope" from Texas way is needed for Denver while a Pacific storm can drop precip on the front range, but that is not at all usual and those upslope storms are what gives the Mississipi (Arkansas river) basin its water and are missing.

Water rights is a biiiiiiiiiiig deal in Colorado.  Stealing water is worse than horse-stealin' pod-nuh.  Let's hope that eastern Colorado doesn't burn down.

MAtt posted while I was typing.  Walking Stick is a place worth going.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:01 PM by -1 »

Matt_Ward

Re: Desperate times in Denver, CO
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2003, 04:40:08 PM »
Maybe some of the local guys can talk about the differences (if any) between the upscale courses and those run by the towns in terms of turf conditions. I played Buffalo Run and Murphy's Creek and both were in good condition given the lack of rain.

Bear Dance was also OK but as I said before it was running quite swiftly.

I've got my fingers crossed for Walking Stick because if another season comes forward like '02 I just have to wonder what can be done? :'(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desperate times in Denver, CO
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2003, 05:00:20 PM »
BillV/Redanman,

Although you're correct about the location of most of the ski areas (ie west of the continental divide), a lot of that water is sent to the Front Range communities via pumps and tunnels built back in the 1930s, especially the Roberts Tunnel that sends water from Lake Dillon, which you see from I-70 near Frisco on the way to Vail. As Matt knows, unfortunately Lake Dillon has become Pond Dillon, a huge reservoir that's almost dry.

Some of the courses have their own well water (eg Wellshire Municipal, one of the spared Denver city courses) or well developed water rights that are helping them right now. My club, Denver CC, has both. I think Murphy Creek (in the east suburban Aurora city system) may be better off than several other Aurora courses, which may meet the fate of the Denver courses. Don't know about Pueblo's Walking Stick. It is a very good course, hope it can hang in there.

All The Best,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Jason Hines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desperate times in Denver, CO
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2003, 05:25:40 PM »
Hi Brad,

I have been watching your weather for the last few months because of the wheat crop, I forgot about you guys and the courses.  A lot of people are not giving the area much hope for precip this year, even if you do get a few timely rains/snows there is not any moisture for at least 2-3 feet down.  The editorials in the DPost were already demanding golf courses turn off their water last May; I always love their class warfare talking points.

Don’t worry, you and Doug can get in a couple of rounds in the sand hills this year, the grass is always green above the aquifer.  Has anyone ever been witness to a course burning up and coming back?  How long does a course have in that hot, dry, windy climate before it’s a goner?  Play or no play?


Jason  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desperate times in Denver, CO
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2003, 05:51:55 PM »
Jason,

Regarding whether a course can recover from this, I'm not an agronomist but I've heard that some grasses just go dormant and then can recover quite quickly with adequate moisture. For example, I played Grandote (Weiskopf/Morrish, and one of my "hidden gems") down in southern Colorado this summer and it was totally bone dry except for the greens, dead animal bones, buzzards flying overhead, you get the picture  ;) . They said the grass (bluegrass I think) was dormant but maybe that's just their wishful thinking/public spin.

I'm thinking of becoming a survivalist...

All The Best,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

A_Clay_Man

Re: Desperate times in Denver, CO
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2003, 08:36:53 PM »
I played Walking Stick the day it was suppose to close. Around Oct. 2nd. It was suppose to close cause the city was turn'in off the spiget. I will relate my first impression and that was that the course was very green. I did expect some brown,  but there was none. What it told me first was that the SOP was for the green green grass. The justification for the green grass was clearly the massive (million$)homes that are adjacent to the course. The green to tee walks and some of the feature shaping were less than Ideal. Please tell me what you all see there cause lord knows I did miss it. Maybe I was swayed by the shaggy turf which was kept long to preserve it, but I doubt it.

It does sound like an opportunity to pitch the firm and fast mentality to the powers that be so that moderation will again be key.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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