Where is the proof that Fazio builds easy uninteresting greensites..

[Tom Jefferson]

Kelly Blake Moran....
The album with 'tangled up in blue'....I think the album title is Blood on the Tracks...not sure, but my favorite in the 40 years I've paid attention to his music and his messages.  His first album, Bob Dylan, also John Wesley Harding. His album after his purported auto accident, Nashville Skyline, was a radical departure from all that came before it and came from a reenergized spirit and a reshaped voice. All the late (last twenty five years or so!) stuff is faded, stale, tired (IMHO).

Rainy weather here at Bandon lately, and due for a sunny change.  Bandon Trails developing beautifully.

Tom

[T_MacWood]

JK
I've only seen a handful of Fazio greens and I have no major complaints, what disturbs me is his total lack of respect for history. I am bothered that he has no problem putting his smudged finger prints over every important golf course he can get his hands on--ANGC, Inverness, Riviera, PVGC, Oak Hill, Winged Foot, Merion, Oakmont, etc.

Why would a guy who has so little interest and respect for the past be involved in so many important/historic courses?

I don't expect you to answer my question because you are more focused upon defending Fazio than you are in preserving and celebrating historic work.

As someone who believes important works of all eras should be preserved and studied, I hope there isn't a future TF who ruins his most important works.

[Kelly Blake Moran]

JK
I've only seen a handful of Fazio greens and I have no major complaints, what disturbs me is his total lack of respect for history. I am bothered that he has no problem putting his smudged finger prints over every important golf course he can get his hands on--ANGC, Inverness, Riviera, PVGC, Oak Hill, Winged Foot, Merion, Oakmont, etc.

Why would a guy who has so little interest and respect for the past be involved in so many important/historic courses?

"Every great architect finds his own antiquity"

James Ackerman

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom MAcWood,

.....what disturbs me is his total lack of respect for history.

I am bothered that he has no problem putting his smudged finger prints over every important golf course he can get his hands on--ANGC, Inverness, Riviera, PVGC, Oak Hill, Winged Foot, Merion, Oakmont, etc.

I'm not saying that I disagree with you, but where's the culpability on the part of those clubs and their membership's that retain him for the sole purpose of altering their golf course ?

He just doesn't walk in off of the street.
He's invited in.
And, he's invited in with but one thought in mind.
To alter the golf course.
And, that determination has been made by the membership prior to extending the invitation to him.

So, while I agree that he's been an instrument of disfiguration, the opportunity and incentive to do so was presented to him by a membership that had already decided to disfigure their classic/historic golf course.

All too often the architect is the lightning rod of discontent on this site, when in fact, more responsibility for disfiguring classic/historic golf courses should be placed at the feet of those who wanted it, solicited it and paid for it.
The individual clubs and their membership [/color]

Why would a guy who has so little interest and respect for the past be involved in so many important/historic courses?

Because, that's what those memberships want.[/color]

I don't expect you to answer my question because you are more focused upon defending Fazio than you are in preserving and celebrating historic work.

Tom, do we blame the scalpel when the surgeon disfigures a patient ?  Fazio is but an instrument, executing the will of the membership.[/color]

As someone who believes important works of all eras should be preserved and studied, I hope there isn't a future TF who ruins his most important works.

You're blaming the messenger, the servant.
Blame the ones who want, send and pay for the messenger, the clubs themselves.[/color]

[Tom_Doak]

Pat:

Don't forget to save a little of the blame for our friends on the USGA Championship Committee.  They are never shy about suggesting changes to a course in the running to host a USGA event, and their track record makes all the clubs believe that changes are a necessary part of keeping up with modern play.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

I agree with you.
Receiving direction or directives from an organization that is well respected by the clubs hosting championships can have a powerful, if not overbearing influence.

[Mike_Cirba]

Patrick;

You're correct that the memberships are ultimately to blame.

However, Mr. Fazio certainly has a right to say to those members, "are you out of your friggin minds?"

His refusal to do so is why he's ultimately to blame.

[SPDB]

Mike - That's false. You assume that it is Fazio the club wants and not a specific outcome. You're giving the man's influence too much credit, while ignoring the realities of what brings him to these clubs in the first place.  

[Joe Hancock]

You're giving the man's influence too much credit, while ignoring the realities of what brings him to these clubs in the first place.  

SPDB,

What are some of the realities, apart from his influence, that brings him to these clubs?

Joe

[SPDB]

Joe -
A desire to "toughen" up the course, for example, in response to a precipitous fall in the rankings, or, perhaps to try to land a major tournament (see Rivieria).

If those are the motivations for a club to do work to its course, do you think Fazio (or any architect for that matter) is going to disabuse them of their folly? They want to toughen their course or they want to get a big time tournament. We'll assume that as constituted they feel or they've been told that neither of those two desires is possible. Why do you think they'll be satisfied with an assurance from Fazio that nothing need be done to their course? Don't you think if Fazio (or Doak, C&C, Hanse, et al.) tells them otherwise they'll simply find someone willing to do the work?

[T_MacWood]

A Ben Crenshaw quote taken from the Wannamoisett thread:
"Let me raise a toast to the par of 69 set beautifully on some 105 acres where everything has its place . . . to such rare places in the game I usually say, 'Guard it with your very lives and take care of it.' "

When was the last time Tom Fazio said this about a golf course (other than one he designed)?

Some people have respect for history, the past and their art, others have no conscience and will sell their wares to the highest bidder, history or no history...the world's oldest profession will continue to be the world's oldest profession, and there will always be people willing to do what ever you desire.

The irony of this is Tom Fazio is a talented architect--a historic architect--who has produced courses worthy of study and preservation...unfortunately his courses will ultimately be butchered by whores of lesser ability because of his own ignorance.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

Like chipping, you're having a difficult time grasping the concept.

If Fazio turned them down, they'd find somebody else.

It's the club that has the ultimate responsibility, not the architect.

It's the clubs that invite the architects in to implement the changes to their course that they've already decided they're going to make.

[T_MacWood]

Pat
You are right, that is the problem with the state of golf architecture, there isn't a strong respect for their own art. It is too easy to rationalize acts of desecrartion...if I don't do it, someone else will.

Comparing golf architecture to architecture you'll find a completely different attitude toward respecting and preserving important works. I wonder if golf architecture's lack of an academic standard or organized curriculum has led to this situation.