Single biggest shock in GD's newest ranking?

[Ran Morrissett]

What is it for you?  

For me, it has to be Cypress Point at #4.

Based on their own (limiting) criteria, it should be more like #64 BEST CASE (i.e. not far off from GD's late 1960's first effort re: Toughest Courses in the US).

I ask the hard hitting question with the world anxiously awaiting the answer  - why does Cypress get a free pass?? After all, isn't it too short? Too easy when the wind doesn't blow? The greens are never too quick, its list of 'problems' goes on and on  

Cheers,

PS I had a copy of each GD Annual ranking since 1981 up until last week when we moved five houses down the street. I threw them all out - I remember why now  

[Jim Franklin]

Baltimore Country Club dropping off the list.

[Mike Hendren]

The Tennessean at #4 and Holston Hills at #6 in the Volunteer State.  

[Tony_Chapman]

Wild Horse is NOT a top-100 public course (but Quarry Oaks is). Good lord.

Oh, and that there are 30 public courses in the United States better than Pasatiempo.

Oh, and Hawktree is 19th.  

[Matt_Ward]

How can there be a "single biggest shock" when the bulk of the findings / strikeouts are too numerous to mention.

For starters --

No Kingsley Club in the top five in Michigan or top 100 is unacceptable.

No Black Mesa among the top 100 public -- ditto Wild Horse.

[Joel_Stewart]

The biggest shock is Ran would post.

On a self serving note, Olympic Club dropping from 16th to 25th after all the work we have done is disappointing.

Friars Head not in the top 100 has to be a shock.

[Robert_Ball]

In California, Mayacama ahead of...

Valley Club
Pasatiempo

[Jim Franklin]

Joel -

Seeing Olympic drop 9 spots amazed me as well, but seeing Five Farms drop out after all the work we did was truly shocking. I am sure Olympic will move up in 2007 as my ratings will take effect then .

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Cypress at 4 is low to me for lots or raters do find their way there notwithstanding the policies. I will not go to the states either. the Louisiana rankings are an embarrassment to some pretty good golfers who rate for them. There are 4 which should not be in the top 20. There a also 3 that are top 7 not on the list at all. The new TPC is so average it hurts. Dye just ripped the tax payers of La a big one and took the money and did very little. It is 25 million worth of consultation fees that very little work was done for. 4 of holes are duplicates of each other 2/2 on each side. I cannot see Mayacama ahead of many of those courses either. I need to do more than a ride by if it is that good. The Quarry at LaQuinta  in a top anything surprises me. Where oh where is Cuscowilla? It is so top 20 it hurts.

[Donnie Beck]

The biggest shock is Ran would post.

Ran???  Who is that  

[A_Clay_Man]

Did I see Lawsonia? I guess being on the list for all these years, was enough.

If I were a magazine, the best courses would be the ones with a large print budget.

[Mike_Sweeney]

That Ron Whitten is still the head of the Golf Digest ratings panel.

I don't jump onto these rater bashing threads too often, but this Golf Digest panel has no direction. How can you pull "Tradition" and not tell your raters? I understand statistics well enough to know the problems with looking as to why a course moved from 35 to 25 or vice versa.

However if you are in charge of a ratings panel, and they can't see the difference between Friar's Head and Atlantic, then you are not educating your panelist. I have defended Atlantic many times in this website. Yes I like a Ress Jones course. However, Friar's Head was blessed with one of the most unique sites on the East Coast. Farmland, dunes, water, wind, trees, open space. It is not fair to even compare with Atlantic which has a wonderful farmland only site.

Statistically I understand how these things happen, but sorry they have an education problem at Golf Digest. If Cypress Point is #4, and that is with tradition thrown out, and Friar's Head is #14 in New York behind Atlantic, then the head of the panel needs to make some drastic changes or step down.

By the way, do any of the raters read Ron's column? Certainly they did not agree with his view of CC of Buffalo when Whitten said, "When it comes to early-American "quarry courses," I like it better than the far more famous Merion East. It may lack Merion's tournament history, but Buffalo's quarry holes are more intriguing, and it has four times as many of them."

Yet, CC of Buffalo does not even make the New York list. By the way, I love his reviews, I am only questioning his leadership. Brad is a little whacky, but he clearly sets a tighter agenda at GolfWeek.

[Steve Lapper]

No Fenway???

Not even in the top NY 25??

Plainfield at 95th....

Does anyone know where we can get some of this "crack" they have at GD?

[RJ_Daley]

I'd rather read the "Racing Form" or Elaine Garzarelli pick stocks. ZZZZZZZZZZ

Why do you guys continue to bother discussing these lists?  

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

The issue is not Ron Whitten per se, but the desire by the powers-that-be at Digest to simply open the doors and increase the size of their panel.

It reminds me of the Zagat's guide to dining. It's not about having more people but having people who really criss-cross the nation and can make meaningful cross comparisons.

There are quality Digest raters -- however -- they are now being pushed among those who just happen to have a very narrow agenda in either pushing the "flavor of the month" type clubs or in elevating courses that clearly have so little to merit their inclusion among a state or nation's best.

It's really sad to see such a complete meltdown because ratings have to be credible to have some sort of meaning -- I would think that the key people at Digest would understand that. I guess I'm wrong.

[Cliff Hamm]

Did I somehow miss Wannamoisett?

[JohnV]

I've seen at least two people say that Friar's Head should be on the list.  Did GD get rid of the waiting period?  Because if not, it might be too new to be on the list.  Same for Black Mesa.

[Tom_Doak]

Friar's Head is #14 because it doesn't have a quorum yet.  There are 13 courses in NY state with enough votes to put them in the top 100, so it can't be listed ahead of them.

Biggest shock:  Flint Hills National.  A friend of mine used to own the property, and even he doesn't think it's one of the best courses in America.

Biggest disappointment:  to see Pacific Dunes rated so low on the Conditioning standard.  From my point of view the conditioning there is as good as it could ever be ... you can putt from forty yards out on the fairway, and it plays like it was designed.  GOLF DIGEST panelists must be rating conditioning by holding up a color strip to see how green the course is, and writing down the corresponding number.

[Tyler Kearns]

Cliff,

No. Fell off the list from the No. 44 spot. Mr. Daley is right, discussing the ratings, or value there of is futile.

TK

[Joel_Stewart]

That Ron Whitten is still the head of the Golf Digest ratings panel.

I'm not exactly sure this is true?   The bottom of the article lists the names for the people responsible and Rons name is clearly missing.  

I know Ron is still writing reviews and I believe he is involved in the "best new courses" but I have a feeling he is not involved in the top 100 ranking anymore?  

[Cory Lewis]

Beechtree at #14 in MD and Swan Point at #7?  What!!! Have these people played both courses?  I wouldn't put Swan Point in the top 20.  No love for other great Baltimore courses like Elkridge and Woodholme either.

[PThomas]

unless the conditioning at Pacific D. has gone WAY down since I was there in Nov 2003, a low rating for it there is ridiculous and indicative of some of the things that can be improved with American golf, like many people wanting all-green conditions, which usually , and unnecessarily, requires more water which equals wasting water  which leads to less roll which leads to shorter driving distances, etc....

the conditions when I was last there were GREAT

man, this is supposed to be about golf courses, not turf nurseries!

[Mike_Sweeney]

Friar's Head is #14 because it doesn't have a quorum yet.  There are 13 courses in NY state with enough votes to put them in the top 100, so it can't be listed ahead of them.

Tom,

Stick to architecture. If it had enough votes, a quorum, to make the NY list, then it had enough to make the Top 100 list. That GolfDigest voters, any of them, can't see the difference between FH and Atlantic is a disappointing. There are obvious others, but this stands out in my little piece of the world.

Matt Ward is right. They need to cut their raters in half, pick the ones who care versus the ones that don't care, and then educate them on what is great, not great and then build consistency.

Joel,

The fact that you, a Golf Digest rater, do not know what Ron Whitten's role is proves my point. There is no education and communication from GD. The GD raters that I have played with have all been way more knowledgable than me on my best days. In between the aw shucks routines, our GD poster boy Tom Huckaby has amazing recall and sharp views. The problem is management of the panel.

[JBergan]

On the local level, Pine Barrens, ShoreGate and Scotland Run making the NJ list while Pine Hill didn't make the cut.

On the big list, Kapalua Plantation being ranked so low.  My round there was the most fun I've had in the rain (poured from 10 through 16), along with the '93 Phillies/Blue Jays World Series.

[SPDB]

I have not investigated the criteria, but it seems that people have a problem with the outcome, which immediately translates to problems with the system. It is possible that a large section of the golfing public (including Golf Digest's readers) might prefer Atlantic to Friar's Head, as hard as that may be for the GCA.com intelligentsia to swallow.

Is it that simple, that the ratings system is flawed because it failed to identify the proper courses? I'm wondering if those Bush election conspiracy theorists might have more to their argument than I originally thought.