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Tommy_Naccarato

Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« on: March 28, 2005, 02:08:21 PM »
Yale Returns to Yesterday

Golf course regaining its classic look, thanks to new superintendent and new
operation procedures
 
An Analysis by Anthony Pioppi, Contributing Editor

 
Mike Moran pulled his golf car up to the fourth green at Yale Golf
Course with a slight smirk on his face and watched me putt out.
The assistant superintendent (“Master Gardner” in Yale union speak) didn’t say a word. “You can now see the fifth green,” I said incredulously pointing out past where he sat. He nodded and laughed. “And that was only one tree,” he said gesturing to where the lone oak had stood for decades obscuring the view of the fifth.

For more than 20 years Moran has worked at the Yale course, including two stints as interim superintendent. He has watched helplessly as the course decayed through neglect, ignorance and apathy. But that has all changed. In a way, the removal of the tree serves to illustrate the changes at Yale under the guidance of superintendent Scott Ramsay, who came aboard in January
2004. It was he who realized that small measures, such as the cutting down of one tree, could make a difference.

The removal of the tree in itself was no big deal, but in Ramsay Yale has someone it has not had in the position of superintendent perhaps since it opened in 1926—a person who appreciates the glory and genius of Seth Raynor’s crowning achievement; a person who understands Yale’s place in
the history of golf course architecture; and a person who realizes what this course could do for Yale if restored to its original intent.

Could Yale one day host a United States Golf Association (USGA) event such as the men’s senior amateur? There are those at Yale and the USGA who think so. A Yale Golf Course brought back to its original intent could charge three times what it does now for memberships and outings and still have a waiting list.

This is the greatest college golf course in the United States, and one of the 20 greatest golf courses in this country and Top 100 worldwide if properly restored. It’s a bold statement, but I stand by it. The school administration, much of it through the work of John Pepper, who was appointed vice president for finance and administration in January 2004, has partnered with the unions to create a better working situation at the course resulting in better playing conditions. Pepper is the former president and chairman of the board for Procter & Gamble.

The school and the unions that represent workers across the spectrum of jobs at Yale have had a long contentious relationship. The superintendent had little say in the hiring of seasonal help before Ramsay arrived. Often times those who worked at other Yale jobs, such as in cafeterias during the school year, were shipped to the course in the summers. That has all changed. This past year Ramsay was allowed to hire 16 seasonal employees, many of them Yale students. And in another negotiated change, seasonal workers are now allowed to do more than just fill divots and rake bunkers — they can
operate mowers.

It was also decided to bring in outside contractors to aerate, seed and fertilize Yale wall-to-wall, a job that would have been impossible for Ramsay’s undersized staff. Tree removal crews have been on site for the second winter in a row in an effort to reverse the decades-long tide of overplanting that obliterated the open style Raynor created through the heavily wooded property. Ramsay has been doing his part, reclaiming greens that lost considerable size over the years. This is not to say all is perfect, there is still much work to be done.

Harry Meussel, the superintendent who oversaw Yale for more than 40 years before leaving in the early 1990s, used a bulldozer to obliterate original distinctive Raynor design characteristics under the guise of ease of maintenance. A bunker restoration program that ended just a few years ago is abysmal. Architect Roger Rulewich, lauded for his original design work but not for restoration, failed to recapture the Raynor style. One needs to look no further than the work on the Principal’s Nose Bunker short of the 17th green where he decimated much of the original feature while adding one bunker that looks more like a litter box than a golf hazard.

The good news is that much of the ill-advised work can be reversed under the guidance of a knowledgeable architect. The really good news is that for the first time since the earliest days of the layout, the school is beginning to fully appreciate what it has. In 1925 the New York Times described Yale with accolades that can one day hold true again: “When finished it will be one of the finest golf courses in the United States. … The course, in its general characteristics, is unique and wholly unlike any course in America.”
 
 

RJ_Daley

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Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2005, 04:24:25 PM »
I think Tony wrote a very worth while article.  As we have all heard over the years, Dr. Childs lamented often about neglect, and Tony is quite on point to highlight how the process of easy-of maintenancization notions killed one of the great classics.   The failure by the Yale administration to treat such a legacy asset properly, and allowed that process to go forward is a process worth documenting.  The old superintendent gets roughed up in the article, and blame for the slovenly attitude of management, and poor decisions also steming from the collective bargaining process with university workers should be looked at as a guide to future administrations who oversee such an asset in order that the art and quality of such an asset is not lost.  Responsible stewardship matters.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Donnie Beck

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Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2005, 11:29:54 AM »
One needs to look no further than the work on the Principal’s Nose Bunker short of the 17th green where he decimated much of the original feature while adding one bunker that looks more like a litter box than a golf hazard.
 

Good Article !!!!

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2005, 12:29:08 PM »

As a result of stifling unions and bloated government, it is no real surprise why the Northeast has quickly moved into unneccesary and superfluous status.

If it wasn't for the fact that this thread was started by a card carrrying union member located in California with an action figure for a governor, I might be offended.  :D

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2005, 01:13:23 PM »
Mike,
Its all about "tough love!" ;)

Peter,
I have said this once if not a million times--its all about management. This entire affair has been a management issue.

If you have any workers, union or non-union more or less working without organization the results will be severly lacking in quality and production. I have come to know this as fact.

The situation with Yale was more then likely because without any experienced leadership, or at least leadership that was ready to get the job at hand done--the crew became as complacent as the person who in charge of them. More then likely left over from the Harry Muessel era. When his successor was promoted from with-in, it was just too big a task to overcome that orignal complacency.

Big changes HAD to be made--and a person brought in that made sure that the crew worked entirely to the letter of their union agreement.

I salute Scott Ramsey, as well as his predecessor--even though he failed to accomplish bringing Yale to up to it's quality of design--for doing this, because it must be a pretty tough job.

But the person that really needs to be chastised here in Roger Rulewich. For shame that he could ever claim the work he did as even suitable for a course of the highest caliber that Yale is, let alone a lowly muni.

For shame!

It's architect malpractice, and if I was the ASGCA, I would be revoking his membership.


Mike_Sweeney

Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2005, 01:41:01 PM »
Mr Sweeney...


Easy on the Mr Sweeney stuff. I knew you were a California taxpayer, but I am not so sure about being a Californian. See when I go visit my Aunt Mary Kay in Brooklyn, she still says to me, "How was the traffic on the Verrazano Narrows (i.e. coming up from Philly)? I have to remind her that I lived in Manhattan for 14 years and took Battery Tunnel! Thus, while you may pay taxes to Arnold those years caddying at Saucon Valley probably make you at least a little bit of a Philly-guy.  ;)

Back on the topic of unions, I agree with Tommy 100% in the case of Yale, Scott's leadership has put everything in a new balance. Sadly for Yale and good for Scott, I have no doubt that he will be lured away by a lucrative offer in a few years. At one point in time, I may have agreed with you on your views about unions/groups, but that has changed. Looking at it from a macro level, shipping jobs and companies off to Nevada and Texas and India are all good for the long term California economy. People will always want to live and replensih California because it is a wonderful place, and this drive is what brings in new industries such as Biotech and nano technologies. It may be painful for those that have to deal with the daily living, but it is good for all of us in the end.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2005, 02:35:13 PM »
For what its worth, I think the Teamsters have both done great things and great harm for the Unions of all trades and professions.

Peter, I won't be so bold to tell you, or expound to you my beliefs because my views of the unions most likely differ then yours. I just find it ironic that It seems to have worked fine at Bethpage, where the super there, Craig Currier--after taking on many of the same problems that confronted Yale and where the power of the USGA, with the help of Rees Jones (imagine that, me crediting Rees with something!) managed to redirect that operation. All with union workers.


Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2005, 02:39:20 PM »
Quote
Looking at it from a macro level, shipping jobs and companies off to Nevada and Texas and India are all good for the long term California economy. People will always want to live and replensih California because it is a wonderful place, and this drive is what brings in new industries such as Biotech and nano technologies. It may be painful for those that have to deal with the daily living, but it is good for all of us in the end.

And Mike, I do agree with this, but its hard to see longtime and much beloved industries move on--like Aerospace. If you go to cities like Lancaster and Palmdale and see how the once thriving aerospace industry left those towns close to dead. They are slowly but surely recuperating by the need for shipping hubs and terminals, but its still a long way from economic recovery. I think Peter would agree there.


Jim_Kennedy

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Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2005, 03:50:50 PM »
Tony wrote:
Quote
A Yale Golf Course brought back to its original intent could charge three times what it does now....

Thanks Tony  ;D
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2005, 08:52:37 PM »
Peter,
I have to tell you I wish you would cut this horseshit out. You have always called me Tommy from the moment you started particpating  in our old discussion group years ago! Where did all of this come from? (and like Dick, I have to agree, I think your just starting to stray from the point, but I probably led you there. So I'll admit fault.)

First, I do agree with a lot of things you bring to light. Except the part of blaming it all on Davis, and Arnold is doing a great job-rhetoric.  Davis spent the entire portion of his second term fighting his recall, and so far, all's we've seen from the Govanator is the same fund raising bullshit that Davis was famous for and probably got him into trouble in the first place.

Yes, WC premiums are somewhat going down-at a pace that will have an affect just about the time when the state finally declares bankruptcy, but even those preported numbers have a to do with the fact that so many business have moved out of California. You can read that both in th LA Times and the OC Register--a conservative news rag if there ever was one.

It's the fashionable thing to do to move out of California. In fact, you could blame a lot of that on the tax breaks the federal goverment offers big business when they incorporate in Reno and other welcoming states. Even Carribean island nations like the Caymans have they're hands out. Big Business has been doing that for years, so it isn't just party-thing.

But ultimately, we should focus on what all of this has to do with Yale and their maintenance which I got to see at probably its very worse. It broke my heart to see such a great golf course maintained like that, and even worse, see it being further destroyed by an architect that was add more to his alumni accredation and wallet, then the desire to simply restore one of Golf's Great Gems.  That's what Yale is, or at least could be.

Or we can talk further about Rosanna Arquette and about just how much she's attracted to me. But I don't want to gloat! 8)

So with that, what do you think of Yale the golf course?

RJ_Daley

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Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2005, 09:10:27 PM »
I really wanted to focus on Tony, his article, and the fact that as a golf writer, Tony did a darn good job of taking on some issues that needed to be said for the good of providing information to other courses so situated in need of restoring, due to a long process of mismanagement.  IN that vain, I think Tony really hit a high note in his writing career with a fine piece.  

I really couldn't give a fidlers fart about the ramifications or parallels of all this to California.  

So, like Mr Mcknight, I took my reply down too, for it had no probative value.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2005, 09:11:51 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2005, 09:13:06 PM »
Peter, Just like a Republican. Always erasing things! ;)

Actually, I think you should have left it up there, and I do think some of what you were talking about has to do with Yale--it's all about politics when it comes to decision making. And I agree, it would be great to not see Yale as one of those, look at the way this looked! type of golf courses.

So what do you think of Yale the golf course? "The golf course" in relation to what you have seen there. Your experiences there.

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2005, 03:20:31 PM »

Steve Curry

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Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2005, 07:49:32 AM »
What a great job Scott Ramsey and his staff have done with Yale since the GCA outing a few years ago, wow..

Congrats!


Scott and staff!





« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 10:05:32 AM by Steve Curry »

Dan_Callahan

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Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2005, 08:50:52 AM »
I played the front 9 at Yale on a damp, foggy afternoon earlier this week. I had not been to the course in two years and was impressed with the changes. I followed the restoration process closely on this site and must admit to a sense of dismay when I saw the Roger Rulewich work compared to early photos of the course. Most noticeably, it seemed that much of the interest had been stolen from the bunkers.

Now having seen the changes firsthand, I have to say that the course is better than I ever expected. The trees and shrubs that have been cleared around the 2nd tee, behind the 6th green, down the left of 7, etc., make a huge difference. The fairways had few bare spots and the greens were in terrific shape. On the first few holes in particular, a real feeling of the massive size of the property has been restored.

I would like to see the folks at Yale try to get closer to the look of the course as it was originally built. In its current state, however, Yale is still nothing short of spectacular.

Steve Curry

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Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2005, 10:17:34 AM »
Can you say tree clearing...









I didn't take any great shots of it but the greens expansions are a great improvement as well.  I must say its an awesome combination to have a guy at the helm who "gets it" and can get it right with his staff.

Steve
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 10:19:29 AM by Steve Curry »

Jerry Kluger

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Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2005, 10:57:03 AM »
Steve: I have not played Yale.  The last photo, which hole is it, and could you give me an idea of the dimensions of the green as it looks really big and the bunkers seem to be quite far from the putting surface.

Dan_Callahan

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Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2005, 11:17:59 AM »
Jerry,

All the greens at Yale are enormous—some of the biggest I have ever seen. I believe the hole in the photo is the 13th, a 210-yard, downhill par 3. It is one of the more underated holes on the course. The bunkers in front are well short of the green. The bunker in the back is tight to the putting surface and used to be shrouded in tree limbs. This hole has really benefited by the tree clearing.

By the way, a 14-year-old kid in the group behind me shot a 34 on the front 9 (from the blue tees) and had only 10 putts. An incredible accomplishment given the size and contours of the greens.

Jerry Kluger

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Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2005, 12:04:32 PM »
Dan: I've often wondered why architects put bunkers so far short of the green on par 3s, where it is likely that the players who are going to hit it in those bunkers will be those who are least likely to be able to get up and down from them, that is a totally mishit shot. When looking at the green the only time a player might hit short of the green is if the pin is in the very front and playing to that pin would still be a good 15 yards from the front bunkers.  It appears that long right is okay for a right pin or a left as the green appears to funnel toward a left pin placement, and the bunker left while deep seems playable.  Thus, my question is whether those bunkers are strategic or aesthetic.

Brian_Gracely

Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2005, 12:24:43 PM »
Jerry,

I've never played a Raynor course and can't be positive, but that hole looks very much like a Redan (although it's downhill) and those bunkers in front are part of the Redan fortification where it protects the target on three sides.  If you look at pictures of other Redan holes, that bunker short is a pretty consistant feature.   I believe it was initially used to prevent the too-low or topped shot from reaching the green.  

Steve Curry

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Re:Tony Pioppi's Yale Article from Golfdom
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2005, 08:50:42 AM »
Back to the top for the other thread.