[Nate Mady]

Fellow GCAs,

Every year during the Open Championship, I hear the comment "there is no true links course in the USA".

Wouldn't Bandon Dunes be a true links course? Seaside, Persistent winds, bumps, knobs, nolls, treeless for the most part.

I have never played Bandon, does it play hard and fast? I guess this is kicker for me.

[THuckaby2]

Nate:

It all comes down to how strict you want to be in the definition of "links."  Very technically it means a course on linklsand, which has a very strict definition meaning more or less land from which the sea has receded....

Thus neither Bandon nor Pacific is a true links - they're on cliffs above the sea.

And by this definition there are no true links in the USA, as we have no real linksland here.  Or that's what people say... arguments still get made about certain courses even using this strict definition.

Of course Pacific Dunes particularly, and Bandon Dunes a little less, as well as quite a few other courses in Long Island, NY and other places PLAY like links (firm and fast, humps and hullocks, etc.) - hell Sand Hills in Nebraska or Wild Horse right near there may be the most linksy of all... but none of them meet this definition, thus the statement you always hear.

TH

[NAF]

there is UK like linksland on Long Island.. Maidstone abuts some of it of course, but the best land I've seen is on the drive out to Montauk from Amagansett.. It is pure linkland to the eye..

[THuckaby2]

As I say, the statement is arguable even under the strict definition.  And heck, I've seen what I'd consider true linksland here in CA as well...north of Eureka... no golf courses on it, but linksland....

[Pete Lavallee]

Nate,

What makes a links play like a true links is fescue from tee to green; both Bandon and Pacific Dunes have it, yes they play like links. It also helps to keep the carts off it; they killed the fescue at Spanish Bay.

[JDoyle]

So what are some of the courses on this side of the pond that come closest to the strict links definition?

The Ocean Course
CC of Fairfield
Newport
Kittansett
Maidstone

[HamiltonBHearst]

Naf

The land you speak of is in Nepeague.  Also try the fresh seafood at the shack across the street from the overpriced "lunch" restaurant.  The locals hang at the shack.  The beautiful people hang out at Lunch.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

All I can say, is that I have had the privilage of laying most of the great links course of England  and Scotland, and Pacific Dunes is in my top 5 links course in the world.

[Punchbowl]

Maidstone may have links land on which it was built....but I would not say that it is a links design...

[ChipRoyce]

Depends on your definition of "true"  

[THuckaby2]

Michael:

I've read that statement from you before, and it is a great one.

Only it's NOT the question here.

Pacific Dunes plays like a links, looks like a links, feels like a links, so what the hell I'd call it a links too.  And a damn great one at that.

Only it's not on real linksland.

So the strict constructionists really have the last word, if they want it.

TH

[JDoyle]

MWP,

What are the other 4?

[Pete Lavallee]

Kittansett and TOC are near the sea and have wind, but do not play like a links. Ground game shots are the key here.

[JDoyle]

Pete,

I do not disagree.  If playing conditions is what you are after then the windy, treeless, fast and firm of Shinnecock and Sand Hills will be your idea of a links course.  If location is what you are after then the CC of Fairfield & the Ocean Course will appear as the best fit.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Jonathon,
They would be

Royal Birkdale
Western Gailes
Portmarnock
Royal Dornoch

[Patrick_Mucci]

Would Prairie Dunes qualify ?

GCGC ?

[Ed_Baker]

How about Eastward Ho!

[Pete Lavallee]

Ed,

Does Eastward Ho! actually encourage the ground game? Are their fairways irrigated? To me, the sea and the wind are only 2 parts of a recipe that has 3 key ingredients.

[Mark Brown]

I remember Prairie Dunes having some fairly tight hole line with some type of bushes, but it's a great course.

[Sean Leary]

Once one has seen true linksland, it is easier to understand the difference between real linksland and links style land.  It may play the same, but there is a definitive difference.

[Steve Lang]

 

Huck and Gang.. you really must revise your positions about links golf locations and accept the USA's interior as some of the oldest links land around.. perspective..

 During much of the Mesozoic Era, the North American continental interior was mostly well above sea level, with two notable exceptions. During part of the Jurassic (208-144 million years ago), rising seas flooded the low-lying areas of the continent. Much of the Interior Plains eventually lay submerged beneath shallow Sundance sea.



Cretaceous Period:
Once again, during the Cretaceous Period (144-65 million years ago), record high sea levels flooded the continental interior with shallow seas.

Cenozoic:
The Interior Plains continued to receive deposits from the eroding Rocky Mountains to the west and Appalachian and Ozark/Ouachita Mountains to the east and south throughout the most recent Era, the Cenozoic. The flatness of the Interior Plains is a reflection of the platform of mostly flat-lying marine and stream deposits layed down in the Mesozoic and Cenozoic Eras.

Excerpt from:
USGS/NPS Geology in the Parks Website, 2001, and Indiana Geological Survey Website, 2002

Now, will the heartland become the 21st Century's GCA nexus?

[A_Clay_Man]

Alluvial or wind? If only alluvially formed soil can be true linksland, so be it. But come to think of it, The whole planet fits that definition since we were all one big ball of water, once.  

Wind dominates the sand hills region of the leeward Rockies, the dunes that can be found all over the left coast, and the shifting deserts, all have the sandy soil needed for great drainage. I doubt all have the climate conditions to grow the types of turf that's most conducive to the unpredictability, needed to make golf a true sport.

I say the Sand hills region is the closest.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Shinnecock is a wonderful US approximation to the BI linkslands.  Kiawah - Ocean, Pac Dunes, and even Nag's Head GL are other examples.

The Nantucket courses do justice to the links idea as do some of the Canadian coastal courses.

JC

[Paul Richards]

Nate

Talk to any knowledgeable Scotsman.

There are NO links courses in the US.

Despite the claim of some, by pure definition, the only 'true' links courses are found in the British Isles.

And that includes the former territory of Ireland.

Slainche!!!

[Doug Siebert]

Nate:

It all comes down to how strict you want to be in the definition of "links."  Very technically it means a course on linklsand, which has a very strict definition meaning more or less land from which the sea has receded....

Thus neither Bandon nor Pacific is a true links - they're on cliffs above the sea.

And by this definition there are no true links in the USA, as we have no real linksland here.  Or that's what people say... arguments still get made about certain courses even using this strict definition.

Of course Pacific Dunes particularly, and Bandon Dunes a little less, as well as quite a few other courses in Long Island, NY and other places PLAY like links (firm and fast, humps and hullocks, etc.) - hell Sand Hills in Nebraska or Wild Horse right near there may be the most linksy of all... but none of them meet this definition, thus the statement you always hear.

TH

Sounds like Sand Hills & Wild Horse meet the definition to me.  Or is there a time limit that makes the fact the sea receded from there a couple hundred million years ago not count?

Edit:  looks like someone else beat me to pointing this out.  That's what I get for trying to read GCA and watch March Madness at the same time

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