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Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re:No True Links course in the USA??
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2005, 09:12:41 PM »
Pat,
So are you saying that Prarie Dunes is or is not a links course in your opinion.
I have played it and it just does not 'feel' like a links..now hows that for a scientific evaluation.

As a Brit, it is just hard to accept anything that far away from the current ocean being considered a links course.

Forget all the so called definitions, if it isnt close to the ocean..it cannot be considered true links

W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No True Links course in the USA??
« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2005, 09:35:39 PM »
Astoria Golf Club, Astoria Oregon.  

Built amongst the dunes and scrub pine.  Small land locked water features, high winds, lots of rain; basically at sea level.

Pat_Mucci

Re:No True Links course in the USA??
« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2005, 10:00:13 PM »
MWP,

I suspect that it didn't feel like a links due to the trees.
If they were removed your impression might change.

It was hard by the sea, the sea just receded.
If sea level was to recede by a depth of 120 feet would you still classify those courses in the UK, links courses ?

W.H Cosgrove,

One of my regrets was not getting to Astoria on my visits to Oregon.  Tommy Nacarrato had touted it highly.
Perhaps I'll get up there on my next visit.

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No True Links course in the USA??
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2005, 10:53:47 AM »
Adam

>Paul Richards, If you use the proximity to water as the strict criteria, why doesn't Beverly qualify?

>That west side ridge of the old lake, was likely all sand dunes at one time. And most of the southside, until recently was not good for any other use.


Never really considered Beverly a links, but perhaps you are right.  There are many sand dunes which create the rolling terrain here which isn't represented in the Chicago area most anywhere else....

 ;) ;)


However, when we began our tree management program, there were some opposed to the plan (few in number, loud in voice, the plan passed 189-27) who began to refer to the course as "Whistling Beverly."  

Even those naysayers are silenced today when they see how well the course has turned out.

Links or not.

 :) ;) :)
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No True Links course in the USA??
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2005, 02:39:01 PM »
Pat

Last I checked there was a mountain range between Nebraska and the Pacific.  Sorry, SH isn't land that links the sea to arable land.  In fact, I would say it is well off the mark.  If Pennard and Porthcawl aren't links, Sand Hills certainly can't be.  Perhaps post-links is a more applicable term than neo-links!

Regarding Arran, folks around here same the same thing about The Malverns!  


Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

ForkaB

Re:No True Links course in the USA??
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2005, 04:06:57 PM »
Sean

Your understanding of the etymology of "links" is the conventional wisdom, but is wrong! :)  It comes from the Middle English "lynkys" meaning "slopes" coming form the Olde Englsih "hlinc" meaning "rising ground," from the Greek "klinein" meaning "to slope," from the Early Vulcan "Klingon" meaning "plug ugly alien," from the late Golden Age GCA "klangone" meaning "Have G5, will travel."  I'll admit that the last two are somewhat speculative......

To me the two areas in the US that come closest to UK linksland are the Bandon area and the high plains (based on Prairie Dunes, having not seen Sand Hills).  Just because the sea receded from Kansas 50 million years ago, vs. 10 thousand or so in the UK, doesn't mean that each can't contain those cool slopes which define linksland.  they do.

Jason Hines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No True Links course in the USA??
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2005, 07:16:05 PM »
To play devils advocate what does being by a “new” sea have to do with the course playing conditions, soil etc.?  Are the sand dunes from 10 million years ago that much different than 10k years ago?  Is this an aesthetic qualification?  Because if it is, isn’t a water hazard fountain and bag boy an aesthetic qualification?   (Somebody please answer that the wind blows off the sea, if you do, I will give you 50 quid or 95 bucks to try and stand on top of my roof right now)

Jason

Sean_A

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Re:No True Links course in the USA??
« Reply #57 on: March 21, 2005, 04:08:02 AM »
Rich

I don't know the origins of why links land is called links land, but I have never heard anybody other than a few on this site claim that links can be anywhere but near the sea, now that is, not sometime in the past.  I will stick with the masses on this one!

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:No True Links course in the USA??
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2005, 06:37:16 AM »
 8)

OK, How about a UK example, Ganton GC in Yorkshire?  It is certainly as "links-like" as any non-immediately-adjacent-to-today's-sea-shore-course?
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

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