Whisper Rock Upper(Fazio)

[Steve_ Shaffer]

This is the first local review of the new  Upper Course:

From today's Arizona Republic:

Saving the best for last

John Davis
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 10, 2005 12:00 AM

If this is going to be the last golf course built in Scottsdale, and land and water issues suggest that might be the case, then Tom Fazio has created a fitting finale.

The new Upper Course at private Whisper Rock Golf Club splendidly caps off the "pure golf" experience owner Gregg Tryhus had hoped to create when ground was broken for the project in 2000.

Combined with the Lower Course designed by Phil Mickelson and architect Gary Stephenson, desert golf doesn't get much better than it is at this north Scottsdale club. advertisement  
 
Tryhus wanted a second course that would contrast and complement its big sister, and Fazio delivered with a layout that features elevated tees and takes advantage of the property's natural dry washes, huge boulder formations and rock outcroppings.

Like the Lower Course, the front nine is relatively flat, but the back nine builds dramatically as it climbs into higher elevations.

The four-hole stretch starting at No. 11 is as solid and picturesque as any in the Valley.

Mickelson's design is one that would suit his game, with forced carries and narrow greens, placing an emphasis on accurate approach shots. Fazio's course presents much more inviting targets off the tees, and greens that are about 600 square feet larger on the average.

"The thing is, the primary landing areas on both courses are about the same size," golf director Trent Rathbun said, "but on the new course it looks like there's a lot more room because the grass runs up closer to the tees.

"Especially for the high-handicap players, it's more visually appealing and gives them confidence to take a full swing instead of trying to guide the ball somewhere."

There are plenty of low handicappers, as well, on a membership list that features about 25 tour pros, including Mickelson, Billy Mayfair and Aaron Baddeley, and celebrities such as Terry Bradshaw.

Geoff Ogilvy, who won his first PGA Tour title Feb. 27 in Tucson, holds the course record of 66, which he shot on opening day, edging playing partner Tim Herron by 1 stroke.

If they ever lack for a challenge, those pros can always move back to a set of rarely used tees that stretch the length of the course to 7,520 yards.

Club membership is by invitation only and will be capped at 580. There are 360 members, and one-fourth of them have handicaps of 5 or better.

That means no shortage of daily "games."

At Whisper Rock, it's all about golf. The club doesn't have tennis courts, swimming pools and some of the other amenities that come with a country club experience. It also doesn't have any tee sheets. Members simply show up and play.

When they aren't playing, they're relaxing in a state-of-the-art, 30,000-square-foot complex that houses men's and women's locker rooms, spas, steam baths, massage tables and a fitness center.

Both courses are walkable, and Rathbun said "about 90 percent" of golfers use caddies instead of riding carts.

Membership comes at a hefty price of $130,000, plus annual dues of $8,500, and 90 percent of the membership fee is returned if a member leaves the club.

Even Mickelson had to pay for a full membership.

"It's not for everyone, but we think there is a real demand in the Valley for private clubs like this," Tryhus said.

"There are several good private clubs in the Valley, and we think we have really found our niche with this one.

"We never thought we'd build our second course this soon. I think the fact that 120 new golfers have joined in the last year speaks volumes about what they think of it."


Facts and figures
WHISPER ROCK GOLF CLUB UPPER COURSE
WHERE: 32002 N. Old Bridge Road, Scottsdale
DESIGNER: Tom Fazio
COURSE TYPE: Desert-style layout accented by elevated tees, large bentgrass greens, dry washes, rock outcroppings and boulder formations.
VITAL STATISTICS: Five sets of tees, ranging from 5,349 to 7,520 yards; 81 bunkers; water in play on one hole.
COST: Membership fee is $130,000, with annual dues of $8,500.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Even Mickelson had to pay for a full membership

 
I think every article I've read on Whisper Rock mentions this.

The course record on the very first day they've played the course is 66, and it's 7520 yards for the Tour pros.  Yikes, those guys are good.

[Joel_Stewart]

Fazio delivered with a layout that features elevated tees and takes advantage of the property's natural dry washes, huge boulder formations and rock outcroppings.

Like the Lower Course, the front nine is relatively flat, but the back nine builds dramatically as it climbs into higher elevations.

I still question the use of Fazio for a course all about golf and with so many good players?   I haven't played it yet but would bet he bulldozed the fairways to be like bowling alleys.  Its such a shame since Bill Coore thought it was the best site for a classical style golf course in the valley.

[SPDB]

Joel - Why don't you wait to see the finished product before repeatedly criticizing it.

[Joel_Stewart]

Joel - Why don't you wait to see the finished product before repeatedly criticizing it.

I'm not criticizing it.  I said in my post I haven't played it but I am speculating.  I have played the Mickelson course.

[SPDB]

I've attached a compendium below.

Go play the course, if you can overcome your predisposed bias, who knows, you might find you like it better than the first course. If you don't, then talk about how bad the selection was.

Its a great club even if Fazio did the 2nd course.

My thought has always been that Whisper Rocks feel (as a club for really good players) is going to be diminished by the selection of Fazio.

Fazio does promise the moon, Whisper Rock in Arizona choose Fazio for their second course over Coore-Crenshaw based on his sales ability.

I have voiced it several times that if you are trying to build a real club, with this many tour players and players with 5 handicaps, hiring Fazio seems to wreck this type of enviroment?

My biggest fear is that they are now starting the 2nd course and Gregg Triyus (the developer) choose Tom Fazio over Coore & Crenshaw.  It seems the whole ambiance will change when Fazio mails it in (I think it will be Fazios 6th course in Arizona).

The developer has put together a great membership of really good players but shockingly has hired Tom Fazio to build the 2nd course at Whisper Rock which may ruin the entire atmosphere?

[Matt_Ward]

Joel:

With all due respect partner -- your comments prior to playing the TF course are about "spinning."

I don't doubt TF has legitimate critics but before all the bullets are splattered AGAIN on how he doesn't "get it" how bout we wait until people play the course ? That's a novel thought -- right ?

You are already "betting" the layout likely has bowling alley type fairways and the like.

GCA already has enough people who take the approach that it's perfectly acceptable to carry a pre-emptive strike.
C'mon -- how bout we wait until personal paying experiences are listed ?

And, before the anti-TF hounds wail about me being his defender I say that's rubbish -- I just prefer people to provide commentary on courses they have actually played first -- without all the spin or conjecture.

[Joel_Stewart]

Well, don't I look like an asshole.  

My point all along which is consistent, is Gregg wanted to build a pure golf club for good players, Tom Fazio should not have been the architect.  Sure, I'm witholding judgement and granted it could be great, but the track record is not there.  

Given that Bill Coore thought it was the best site he has seen in Arizona for a classical style golf course (and he lives across the street) and that Fazio has already built 6 courses in the area, it seems (I could be wrong) another architect would have been a better choice.

I'll try to argue my point a different way.  Would the ambiance change at Bandon Dunes if if Fazio was hired for Bandon Trails.  My answer, yes.  

Another example, why did Kenny Baskt fire Fazio (who was originally hired for Friars Head by the previous owner).  Its because of the style and the type of golf course he envisioned.  

I will continue to believe that Whisper Rock would have been, and could have been a much better club with a different architect.

[Matt_Ward]

Joel:

It's nice to weigh in on what has already happened -- quite another thing to pontificate and say that the past will always repeat.

Joel -- you're spinning about the future. C'mon nuff of the denials. Let's be a big boy and say it simply -- you think TF doesn't have what it takes to design a first rate golf course.

There are far too many people who take it upon themselves to provide a "once and for all tag" upon certain architects -- either they walk with the gods or are evil reincarnated. Geeze Joel -- what category does TF fall into for you ?

What's the issue with the fact that TF has designed other layouts in the area ? What does that have to do with Whisper Rock and the product that comes from THAT site ?

Joel -- how bout you simply say this -- you don't like what TF does and are enamored with C&C. Let's cut to the chase and call it simply shall we. Why pretend to be "open-minded" when the facts say otherwise.

You continually chime in with your opinion -- without having played the new 18 -- that WR "would have been, and could have been a much better club with a different architect."

I'll say this again -- based on what ? The past. Really. How bout the novel approach and seeing what TF did with the actual site. Why the rush to judgement when no personal experiences with the second 18 at WR are forthcoming.

I am amazed you can spin and provide your own buzz (negative this time around) without physically playing the course. It's an incredible gift you have.

Joel, I take the old-fashioned approach that while we all can hold opinions I much prefer those who with informed ones. The best way -- likely the only way -- to have an informed opinion on a golf course is to play it.

Forgive me Joel -- I always thought someone as seasoned as you would know that. Pardon me.

[Joel_Stewart]

First, I said "club" not course.

Second, am I more interested in playing a C&C course than a Fazio course, yes.  I'm also more interested in seeing a Doak, Hanse or Kyle Phillips course than Fazio.

Do, I think Fazio has a place, yes.  He was the perfect choice for Shadow Creek, Wade Hampton, Black Diamond and I'm sure others.  He was not the perfect choice for Whisper Rock.

[Matt_Ward]

Joel:

That's lawyerly BS and you no better.

Joel -- you're verbal parsing is an artful dodge of what you meant.

C'mon be a big boy and admit it. Until the course is played there is no way to know 100% for sure what the finished result is about -- good, bad or indifferent. Like I said -- I always thought a seasoned person like yourself would not only understand that but practice it.

Parson me for my mistake.

[Tony Petersen]

  Having had the opportunity to play the Upper course around 2 weeks ago, I would have to say that it is the best Fazio course that I have played to date. However, the only Fazio that I have played were Maroon Creek, Valley Club at Cordillera and Spring Hill.

The fairways are big by AZ standards, forgiving to a degree ala We-Ko-Paa... However, with the AZ formula, big fairways lead to somewhat big carries off the tee.

We played from tips, and it's long, regardless of how you look at it. Once the greens catch up to the speed of the Lower course (12-13) it will be a tough test of golf, but in a fun.

Just thought I would throw in my two sense.

BTW... I have seen the land for the new Coore / Crenshaw at We-Ko-Paa, and I have a feeling it's going to be a GREAT course when it's finished. The contour and roll of the land in that area is so more varied that N. Scottsdale, though I can only imagine the course that C & C would have built at WR.

Bottom line, if you have a chance to play WR, say yes and enjoy the experience, as it is VERY limited (no PGA comps, etc.)

Played Silverleaf on Monday. Fun tract, 7300 from the tips, some interesting bunkering (though VERY polished), using the same sand as Augusta, and some REALLY fun greens (subtle but trouble if you don't watch out!)

Have a good one, guys  

[SPDB]

Arizona .... classical style golf course

This is a very humorous paradox.

First, I said "club" not course.

Second, am I more interested in playing a C&C course than a Fazio course, yes.  I'm also more interested in seeing a Doak, Hanse or Kyle Phillips course than Fazio.

Do, I think Fazio has a place, yes.  He was the perfect choice for Shadow Creek, Wade Hampton, Black Diamond and I'm sure others.  

And Pine Valley. There goes your theory.

He was not the perfect choice for Whisper Rock.

Just to illustrate the absurdity of this statement, you would have said the same thing about the choice of Phil Mickelson and Gary Stephenson to design the course you now profess to love.